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The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

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Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#181

Post by lern_too_spel »

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #173
lern_too_spel wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their participation shows at least some disregard for the privacy of their customers in and of itself Why? Apple is legally required to hand over the court ordered data whether or not they participate in the FBI's data integration program. By implementing a proper data integration system, Apple can standardize audits and alerts and make sure the FBI gets only what is required and not somebody else's data by acciden…

I'd recommend checking out the article and other reading on PRISM. PRISM is operated by the NSA and involves egregious breaches of personal privacy including bulk collection of loosely targeted data, warrantless data retrieval in some instances, the collection and use of "inadvertently collected data" and more. This entire period of extreme surveillance and secret courts, which are in effect kangaroo courts, will lik…

> PRISM is operated by the NSA and involves egregious breaches of personal privacy including bulk collection of loosely targeted data, warrantless data retrieval in some instances, the collection and use of "inadvertently collected data" and more.

No, according to Snowden's documents, PRISM is a data processing system that consumes data sent to the FBI's Data Intercept Technology Unit following a Section 702 order for communications sent to or from a specific foreign user not in the US.

https://medium.com/@alecmuffett/how-to-talk-about-prism-and-...

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#182

Post by millstone »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #179
saagarjha wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? 90+% of Google's services are online. Apple has a substantial hardware business, so I don't see how you are conflating the two.

You can buy an Android phone and never use the cloud if you want just like an iPhone. The two are actually very similar. Google services do not matter if you have an Android phone or an iPhone. Suspect there is actually more consumption of Google services on the iPhone then even Android but do not have numbers handy to support.

Huawei selling customized AOSP with WeChat doesn't represent Google's participation in the Chinese market. Chinese Android users aren't Google users.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#183

Post by millstone »

crispinb wrote: post #127
thisacctforreal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make an effort to design their products and services with privacy and security in mind, and are much more transparent about what data is collected and how it's used. The iCloud-China situation is unfortunate. The situation is very different from Google, both in the opportunity costs, and the fact Apple's products are dependent on China to be manufactured. Additionally, if you forego iCloud services (namely iClou…

> They make an effort to design their products and services with privacy and security in mind This is certainly true, and given that under Cook Apple has clearly decided this is a strategic asset to invest in, will probably become more true over time > and are much more transparent about what data is collected and how it's used This is false - Google does just as good a job on transparency. It's trivially easy to see…

Google has lots of data that they don't show you. In particular, Google won't show you the list of non-Google sites it knows you have visited, but they do track that via Analytics, Adsense, etc.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#184

Post by mda »

lucideer wrote: post #61
mda wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true.

It is true. Firstly, I was pointing out one small example of Google's privacy settings being non-obvious, which the GP mentioned in their post. There are many, many others one could go into, but we'll stick with just user location privacy for now. Also, minor disclaimer: What Google does or doesn't collect varies over time (as their policies and regulation changes, and in response to various court-cases). What they m…

0 is about Google wifi it is not any wifi. What you claimed is still untrue, you are conflating irrelevant things.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#185

Post by dbuder »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #22
lucideer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> controls that I trust. I think this trust might be misplaced. > Example: Location history. It is turned off by default. Displaying your location history to you is turned off by default. Google's own recording of your location, for their purposes, cannot be turned off.

> Google's own recording of your location, for their purposes, cannot be turned off. Citation needed. Android even lets you turn off AGPS, which collects anonymous location data to update itself. As far as I know, this is not even possible on iOS.

I don't have a citation either but when looking into Android for a project I read that GPS doesn't really turn off, you can do it but you have run your own Android brew. I was trying to save power so that's the kind of thing I was looking for.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#186

Post by TangoTrotFox »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #181
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd recommend checking out the article and other reading on PRISM. PRISM is operated by the NSA and involves egregious breaches of personal privacy including bulk collection of loosely targeted data, warrantless data retrieval in some instances, the collection and use of "inadvertently collected data" and more. This entire period of extreme surveillance and secret courts, which are in effect kangaroo courts, will lik…

> PRISM is operated by the NSA and involves egregious breaches of personal privacy including bulk collection of loosely targeted data, warrantless data retrieval in some instances, the collection and use of "inadvertently collected data" and more. No, according to Snowden's documents, PRISM is a data processing system that consumes data sent to the FBI's Data Intercept Technology Unit following a Section 702 order fo…

I would avoid basing your knowledge on blogs.

The wiki page's synopsis are contradictory as usual, but the original images as well as Snowden's comments are not ambiguous. The slides show real time access to video, voice, VOIP, etc.

Snowden's synopsis was, "In general, the reality is this: if an NSA, FBI, CIA, DIA, etc. analyst has access to query raw SIGINT [signals intelligence] databases, they can enter and get results for anything they want."

Quoting Greenwald who received the information and disclosure directly from Snowden: "...even low-level NSA analysts are allowed to search and listen to the communications of Americans and other people without court approval and supervision." Greenwald said low level Analysts can, via systems like PRISM, "listen to whatever emails they want, whatever telephone calls, browsing histories, Microsoft Word documents. And it's all done with no need to go to a court, with no need to even get supervisor approval on the part of the analyst."

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#187

Post by lern_too_spel »

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #186
lern_too_spel wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PRISM is operated by the NSA and involves egregious breaches of personal privacy including bulk collection of loosely targeted data, warrantless data retrieval in some instances, the collection and use of "inadvertently collected data" and more. No, according to Snowden's documents, PRISM is a data processing system that consumes data sent to the FBI's Data Intercept Technology Unit following a Section 702 order fo…

I would avoid basing your knowledge on blogs. The wiki page's synopsis are contradictory as usual, but the original images as well as Snowden's comments are not ambiguous. The slides show real time access to video, voice, VOIP, etc. Snowden's synopsis was, "In general, the reality is this: if an NSA, FBI, CIA, DIA, etc. analyst has access to query raw SIGINT [signals intelligence] databases, they can enter and get re…

> The slides show real time access to video, voice, VOIP, etc.

For the specific users whose data was requested in the Section 702 request.

> Quoting Greenwald who received the information and disclosure directly from Snowden: "...even low-level NSA analysts are allowed to search and listen to the communications of Americans and other people without court approval and supervision."

Funny how Snowden didn't have any evidence of this. All his documents match the description I gave you. The FBI's DITU is right there in the system diagram slide. This is just a misunderstanding of the documents by a low-level sysadmin who never actually saw the programs and a credulous reporter who didn't even try to check his facts.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#188

Post by distant_hat »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #22
lucideer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> controls that I trust. I think this trust might be misplaced. > Example: Location history. It is turned off by default. Displaying your location history to you is turned off by default. Google's own recording of your location, for their purposes, cannot be turned off.

> Google's own recording of your location, for their purposes, cannot be turned off. Citation needed. Android even lets you turn off AGPS, which collects anonymous location data to update itself. As far as I know, this is not even possible on iOS.

To get around this, ad networks can often buy location data directly from cell carriers themselves. While Google may not sell this, Sprint and others will for the right price and conditions.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#189

Post by crispinb »

millstone wrote: post #183
crispinb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They make an effort to design their products and services with privacy and security in mind This is certainly true, and given that under Cook Apple has clearly decided this is a strategic asset to invest in, will probably become more true over time > and are much more transparent about what data is collected and how it's used This is false - Google does just as good a job on transparency. It's trivially easy to see…

Google has lots of data that they don't show you. In particular, Google won't show you the list of non-Google sites it knows you have visited, but they do track that via Analytics, Adsense, etc.

Possibly a fair point (I only write 'possibly' because it's not an area I know that much about).
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