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The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

wsj.com

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Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#121

Post by saagarjha »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #82
awakeasleep wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing facts that change the whole picture. Cloud services are required to use Google services & devices. G had to choose between giving China everything or withdrawing from the market. Cloud services are an add-on to Apple's products. The iPhone is still useful without enabling anything from iCloud. Cloud services are optional with the iPhone.

Cloud is not required with Google. What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? 90+% of Google's services are online. Apple has a substantial hardware business, so I don't see how you are conflating the two.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#122

Post by urda »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #82
awakeasleep wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing facts that change the whole picture. Cloud services are required to use Google services & devices. G had to choose between giving China everything or withdrawing from the market. Cloud services are an add-on to Apple's products. The iPhone is still useful without enabling anything from iCloud. Cloud services are optional with the iPhone.

Cloud is not required with Google. What are you talking about?

... what Google products don't require the cloud? You know that pretty much all Google services are in the cloud yes?

As a third party observer, you have gone completely off the rails here.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#123

Post by gowld »

downandout wrote: post #80
laythea wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole tracking thing should be outlawed in my opinion. It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. In a world where that is clearly not ok, then why is it that this kind of thing (tracking) is deemed ok? What we need is something that does to our online privacy, what curtains did for peoples real…

It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. These websites belong to private entities. So it’s more like saying that because you voluntarily walked into my store, it’s ok for me to observe your behavior while yo…

Your opinion is not a "nope". It's your opinion. Others differ.

For example, stalking is illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking#Laws_on_harassment_an...

as is wiretapping

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#Two-p...

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#124

Post by gowld »

laythea wrote: post #77
Nadya wrote: post #58

44 blocked scripts loading the article - nearly half of which was tracking related. Surely the irony of that isn't lost on people? Google's ability to track users is 99% entirely due to companies like the WSJ using them for tracking users. These companies are just as much to blame, if not more, than Google itself. E: What I mean by that is Google provides the means, but Google couldn't track nearly half of all sites…

The whole tracking thing should be outlawed in my opinion. It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. In a world where that is clearly not ok, then why is it that this kind of thing (tracking) is deemed ok? What we need is something that does to our online privacy, what curtains did for peoples real…

> it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains.

Legally, it is. You might advocate to change that law.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#125

Post by gowld »

ballenf wrote: post #66
pgeorgi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that, see https://developers.google.com/speed/libraries/terms That stuff is kept separate from all account data (like with Google DNS[0] and fonts[1], too): no common cookies, "unauthenticated" (ie. no cross-referencing with Google accounts), logs retain no referrers [0] https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy [1] https://developers.google.com/fonts/faq#what_does_using_the_...

I don't read it as stating that the data is kept entirely separate. In fact it references the general privacy policy making it quite clear that whatever data is collected is governed by the same rules as everything else.

What data is collected?

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#126

Post by giancarlostoro »

bduerst wrote: post #107
giancarlostoro wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/875bu4/goog...

Why not just link the article directly? [1] That KIA subreddit is notorious for being scummy [2] 1. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kgwnp/porn-on-go... 2. https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/2/16591508/reddit-content-po...

Was in the midst of doing some work and it was one of the first results I found on Google, I figured some of the commentary might provide more context, not fully familiar with that sub though.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#127

Post by crispinb »

thisacctforreal wrote: post #63
jacksmith21006 wrote: post #55

Why is Apple given a pass? They gave all their China user data to the China government so they could stay in China to make a buck. Is that not selling users data? Versus Google chose to leave China instead of handing over the data. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...

They make an effort to design their products and services with privacy and security in mind, and are much more transparent about what data is collected and how it's used. The iCloud-China situation is unfortunate. The situation is very different from Google, both in the opportunity costs, and the fact Apple's products are dependent on China to be manufactured. Additionally, if you forego iCloud services (namely iClou…

> They make an effort to design their products and services with privacy and security in mind

This is certainly true, and given that under Cook Apple has clearly decided this is a strategic asset to invest in, will probably become more true over time

> and are much more transparent about what data is collected and how it's used

This is false - Google does just as good a job on transparency. It's trivially easy to see what data they have on you, and control it as you wish. Google's business model would be threatened if people used these facilities, but of course they don't.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#128

Post by dforrestwilson »

chongli wrote: post #108
downandout wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. These websites belong to private entities. So it’s more like saying that because you voluntarily walked into my store, it’s ok for me to observe your behavior while yo…

Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. That's not true at all. When I go to the hardware store to buy a box of nails, I don't have any expectation for the owner to begin following me around for the rest of the day (and in perpetuity thereafter). I also don't expect the hardware store owner to get on the phone with the grocery store owner and ask him what groceries a…

I don't think either of these analogies is accurate?

It's more like Home Depot slapping a GPS tracker on my person, which I am take with me when I leave the store, isn't it?

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#129

Post by jkaplowitz »

gowld wrote: post #124
laythea wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole tracking thing should be outlawed in my opinion. It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. In a world where that is clearly not ok, then why is it that this kind of thing (tracking) is deemed ok? What we need is something that does to our online privacy, what curtains did for peoples real…

> it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. Legally, it is. You might advocate to change that law.

There are places in the world where that is often not legally okay.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#130

Post by jkaplowitz »

russdpale wrote: post #117
delroth wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that same web page: > We don't correlate or combine information from our temporary or permanent logs with any personal information that you have provided Google for other services. Of course, all of that is meaningless if you want to think that Google is lying in its privacy policies. (Disclaimer: I work at Google, but not on 8888).

Personally, if they cant prove it, it shouldn't be trusted. And in talking about proving it with the source code. The days of granting benefit of the doubt to these companies should be over. The onus of security should be on the providers proving it, not misplaced trust.

Do any providers you use meet this standard? A few bits of open source software have been subjected to credible public audits, but not most of those. For proprietary services, the detailed results of any audits are typically nonpublic.

This is nice in theory but would prevent you from sharing your data with any third-party services in practice beyond your personal circle of trusted acquaintances.

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