Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#181

Post by gigatexal » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

efields wrote: post #169

gigatexal wrote: post #129

I work for a healthcare services company. The industry is ripe for disruption just in the way data is handled and managed. What I found interesting in the article is that the new firm would not be “profit seeking”. Interesting. I wonder if Amazon would do what they did for years and put any and all profits back into the new company. But then why partner with an investment bank?

> But then why partner with an investment bank? Financial security in exchange for points? Amazon already did the profitless thing for a decade+. It's betting on its ability to do it again in a bigger market, but a market with a ton of unknowns. Having some financial backing by an investment bank might be something of a safety net. Maybe Amazon was never certain AWS would work out, but look where it is now. If you co…

Of course I would. I think the world knows not to invest against Bezos.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#182

Post by ChuckMcM » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

bostonpete wrote: post #168

rsync wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The whole reason we get insurance is to avoid those high prices." But only for unpredictable, irregular events. Anything else is uninsurable. If someone sells you "insurance" for wellness checkups[1], regular, scheduled screenings ... or tires on your car ... you can be absolutely assured that they are taking from you as much, or more, in premiums than the cost of those services. What you are looking for is socializ…

Your comment seems to overlook the fact that insurance companies negotiate better rates on many (most?) services than an individual would get going at it alone. From that perspective, I think it's reasonable to say that in our current system, insurance can allow you to essentially avoid high prices even for things that are predictable/regular.

This is not clear, in that "concierge doctors" or cash only doctors to some, seem to have rates that are lower than what the insurance companies claim they are billed for a service. That would suggest they are lousy negotiators.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#183

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

geodel wrote: post #156

ceejayoz wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good outcomes don't have to be expensive. Europe spends half what we do per-capita on healthcare, with similar (and often better) overall outcomes.

Well that's kind of truism. Good food, good education, good car, good house and so on, none of them have to be expensive, but more often than not they are.

Where healthcare's concerned, that's simply not the case.

The US spends 2-3 times what the rest of the OECD countries spend on a per-capita basis. https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

For all that spending, we have lower life expectancy and worse stats in a variety of outcomes. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/... http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-healthcare-comparison-20...

Not only does healthcare not have to be expensive, it isn't (comparatively speaking) in the rest of the developed world.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#184

Post by krapp » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #164

pc86 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's anything necessarily anti-capitalist about BI, especially if it could be shown that a given level of BI substituting certain social programs was more cost-effective. Increasing benefits while lowering taxes without raising the deficit or incurring debt would be a pretty easy sell to both sides of the aisle, I'd think.

Its entirely orthogonal to Capitalism, surely?

I think that depends on whether or not one views regulation or state influences on the free market as being anti-capitalist.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#185

Post by losteverything » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:07 PM UTC

dna_polymerase wrote: post #161

losteverything wrote: post #158

When i think of disruption i think of uber. Rides where none could happen before. What will their disruption be? How about delinking insurance to healthcare. Let me buy healthcare the day i need it. And nothing the day after i dont. No more having healthy people pay for sick people: no more young pay for the old. Create something we cant imagine; like uber; like Facebook

Disruption and Uber? What kind of rides were enabled by Uber, that couldn't be done by cab?

My thinking. Cab supply and ease.

I work at a retailer where 20-30% more probably) use their phone to get to work. Its affordable and allows taking the job. $5 to get home. Cabs were $11 and importantly unreliable.

Have a phone; get a ride anytime.

And.. A person i work with finishes her shift and turns "on" her Uber driver mode and instantly becomes a cab. Uber is an on/off switch for cab supply. To me that is very different.

Imo before uber one could not even think transportation was easy.

Its not the Pepsi Generation it's the Uber Generation

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#186

Post by specialist » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:08 PM UTC

weka wrote: post #116

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #53

It's not just the cost. It's the incredible inefficiency of the operations, and, the gerrymandering of coverage. Under the ACA, I had to choose between allowing my family to continue to see their lifetime care givers, or, paying in network rates, for the full year, because the insurance company I chose gave me incorrect information when they were trying to get my business (my wife is less kind in evaluating their mot…

I had the same unfortunate experience that in angers me to even think about it. - I leave my last employer on July 21, 2017 - My old employer rols me off system on last day of July 2017 - On June 2017, they switch HR providers from TriNET to Namely and now the payment processor is Discovery Benefits and the Dental/Vision are now in Guardian. (So it went from Aetna to Aetna/Guardian and two other companies). Since my…

I encourage you to contact your state's insurance commissioner. Further, in my state, they admin the COBRA program. In my experience, the state has been very supportive, helpful. Whereas the insurers and payers will do very little to help.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#187

Post by Fnoord » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

cremno wrote: post #179

bbddg wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd call this liberal-communism. We just have to put our trust in benevolent billionaires to solve our problems for us with no oversight or democratic controls whatsoever. The idea that this is anything but an attempt to squeeze even more money out of the system for quite literally the richest people on Earth is naive. In Ohio, 10% of Amazon employees are on food stamps[1] while Bezos is worth over 100 billion dollar…

>liberal-communism What's next? Anarcho-Capitalism?

> What's next? Anarcho-Capitalism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#188

Post by tr0ut » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:11 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #84

odonnellryan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel Buffet and Bezos have the technical capacity and certainly the capital to tackle this issue. They can't fix the entire HC market, but they can have a great start.

All involved players are mainly interested in lining their own pockets. The question if this will come at the expense of patients or other players in health care.

Do you believe hospital Executives/VPs (which are more likely than not physicians) are not interested in lining their own pockets? Take a look at who sits on which boards and the rather obvious conflicts of interest within HC. The entire system is designed for billing. You realize clinicians make bonus on seeing as many patients as possible. See a patient for 15 mins bill for 1 hour.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#189

Post by specialist » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

fred256 wrote: post #149

weka wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same unfortunate experience that in angers me to even think about it. - I leave my last employer on July 21, 2017 - My old employer rols me off system on last day of July 2017 - On June 2017, they switch HR providers from TriNET to Namely and now the payment processor is Discovery Benefits and the Dental/Vision are now in Guardian. (So it went from Aetna to Aetna/Guardian and two other companies). Since my…

That's the way COBRA works though: you have 2 months to elect it, but if/when you do, you have to pay premiums starting from the moment you lost your original coverage (and have retroactive coverage).

It's all about that first postmark, when you start the paperwork.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#190

Post by prklmn » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #166

prklmn wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wrong, replace dividends with stock buybacks and buying up other companies, it's the same impact on the policy holder, who will still see no financial gain from holding the policy. Did you consider that some of those less fortunate people that he donates to might be less fortunate because they've been paying into an insurance system that for 40+ years years has provided them no return?

If you want an investment you can invest, if you want insurance you can get insurance. I'm not sure why you think overpaying for insurance and getting a dividend back sounds like a great way to do both. If you pay for insurance for 40+ years you certainly got something out of it--you have been insured for 40+ years!

>> If you want an investment you can invest, if you want insurance you can get insurance.

Most people used to do both at the same time and it seemed to work pretty well before Buffett came along. And there's a good analogy to your last point - someone who rents an apartment for 40 years when they could have bought an equivalently valued home two times over. They shouldn't complain when they die with a net worth of zero, they had a roof over their head for 40 years!

Also, mutual policy holders don't "overpay" for insurance as all dividends are returned to them. Only a private insurance company policy holder could overpay. Just thinking about it now, Buffett wouldn't be so rich if his policy holders weren't overpaying, as you're implying.