Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Patreon is worried about associating their brand with pornography, they could still spin off a sister site under an entirely different domain, brand, and infrastructure, but with the same underlying codebase. If Big Food and Big Opthalmology and Big Others can present the illusion of competition by having one parent company own all the brands on the market, why not Patreon?
>, they could still spin off a sister site under an entirely different domain, brand, I think it's a decent idea but my guess is that it wouldn't be enthusiastically received by the adult creators. The "Patreon" brand has already accumulated legitimacy and trust. The adult-themed content creators would want to continue to leverage that. The creator selling sex performances gets to be in the same "digital inventory" (…
An Open Letter to Patreon
181–190 of 245 posts
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#182Does anyone else recollect the expression “no one owes you a business model”? There’s many reasons Patreon should want to avoid being a porn payments processor. Blame American Puritanism or whatever, but that’s the milieu in which they operate. They don’t owe it to anyone to bear excess risk just so that someone else can have a profitable hustle at their expense. If this is such a big issue for the LGBT community Fun…
Right, when Patreon started kicking off people on the fringes of the political spectrum (Nazis, Antifa, Alt-right) they moved to a 'free-speech' alternative called Hatreon: https://hatreon.net/
Yeah. Case in point. Don’t like Patreon? Roll your own.
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe it's just important to include that bit, because it actually reflects the experience of the authors? The community that signed the letter? Are those groups you mention actually disproportionately affected by this change? Either way, this whole letter consisted of a few sentences that brought in the identity angle. These sentences correctly show that this change disproportionately affects some (minority) communi…
> The anti-PC crowd immediately latched onto these few sentences and now HN top upvoted thread is all about how the letter made the HN crowd feel uncomfortable. I'm pro-PC and have routinely come out in defence of the concept here on HN. Last year there was a rash of MRA crap on HN, and I was arguing against it regularly. I also have no problem with porn itself, and view it myself. Now, all this being said, the openi…
So your point is that you think the claim is wrong? Because, as I've said elsewhere, I think it's prima facie extremely plausible. The idea that minorities are overrepresented amongst the most vulnerable populations, especially when several dimensions of marginalization intersect (in this case adult content creation) is not at all far fetched. Instead it seems fairly obvious.
As such I would put the burden of prove on you when you claim the authors misrepresent their community in order to advance their point.
Now I agree with your point that the fuzzy line is problematic. And patreon can't solve this on their own. I think regulation could, but which politician will stand up for that? The issue the authors have can't be completely resolved in this context, but patreon shifted their policy contrary to how they were marketing themselves to creators before (and what they got good press for). I think that's a good reason to be publicly upset and push back.
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#184While most clients expect sex, not all do. A few of their clients were gay men who hired call girls to accompany them to social events, like large family weddings. In some cases, they hired the same girl every time for the appearance of a steady girlfriend. In at least one case, the family liked the girl so much that the gay man was getting pressured to marry her. They had to stage a tearful breakup.
The point of that story is that, if I were doing a sex based business, I would go reread that book and see what takeaways I could come up with for how to do this. It was such a classy business, some of her clients stopped seeing call girls at other services in other cities when they traveled because it raised their expectations for standards.
While I am sympathetic to the very real problems that the most fringe groups have (gays, trans, people of color, etc) I believe strongly that asking standards to be lowered to accommodate their personal challenges is the wrong approach. Instead of saying that we should be allowed to make money in spite of not being cultured people who get the difference between porn and erotica, it would make more sense to seek to establish some means to effectively educate people who want a business in this space, but aren't sophisticated enough to readily navigate it.
There are reasons sex is a touchy subject with restrictions on it. Free love climates only thrive in situations where you can largely eliminate serious consequences. The Hippie Era was born of the creation of both reliable birth control and antibiotics. It died due to AIDS.
One of the benefits of online sexual things is that no one will get either pregnant or diseased from it. That doesn't automatically eliminate all problems associated with sex.
I think we do need to get over our aversion to paying for sexual services. But, I think we need to be careful in how we approach new standards and solutions. A lot of people don't really think things through and then you learn that X practice leads to very bad things by watching those bad things unfold.
As an alternative or adjunct payment option:
This may not help some of these businesses, because Pay Pal's policies may not be anymore sex-friendly than Patreon's, but you can do a Pay Pal tip jar or Pay Pal payment system. Here are things I have written about making a tip jar:
http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/search?q=Tip+jar
That likely won't be a ton of money. There is likely room for improvement.
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#185This letter reflects very poorly on the writer(s). You would think Patreon is the difference between life and death for them (they basically say as much). You would think that without Patreon, nobody would be interested in their creations. I'm sorry but -wow-. You've got other ways to collect payments from people who support your work... and if you have a fanbase already, I'm not sure where the problem lies in moving…
What are the other ways to collect payments? Paypal? Nope [1]. Stripe? Nope [2]. See the quote I posted here about someone who tried: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15551817 Generally it's not rare to see websites restrict their content not because its illegal, but because it's impossible to collect payment for any of your content, if some of your content is deemed unacceptable by VISA/Mastercard, etc... And pa…
If no available alternatives suit, and there is a big demand for something different, someone passionate should go build it and get rich! And if there isn't a big demand for it, so be it! Not everyone gets to have a liveable salary from writing furry fanfic porn, c'est la vie. The entitlement in the letter really bothers me.
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#186As a white hetro male who consumes porn, as do %90 of us white hetro males do. I do not understand how it can be "fine" and "modern" for us to watch porn. But not "fine" and "modern" for the women who produce it to be paid for it. Porn is one of the few products out there that provides real value, real stress relief, and has no environmental or moral downsides. Porn is better for the environment, animals rights, and,…
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#187As a white hetro male who consumes porn, as do %90 of us white hetro males do. I do not understand how it can be "fine" and "modern" for us to watch porn. But not "fine" and "modern" for the women who produce it to be paid for it. Porn is one of the few products out there that provides real value, real stress relief, and has no environmental or moral downsides. Porn is better for the environment, animals rights, and,…
People only watch porn because it is anonymous. This is no different from piracy. People steal only because they think they think they won't get caught (or give some arguments about DRM to convince themselves stealing is OK which is completely beside the point). Most people won't pay for porn if it was non-anonymous. So, I don't agree that it has no moral downsides. I so agree with your comments on icecreams and fidg…
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#188As a white hetro male who consumes porn, as do %90 of us white hetro males do. I do not understand how it can be "fine" and "modern" for us to watch porn. But not "fine" and "modern" for the women who produce it to be paid for it. Porn is one of the few products out there that provides real value, real stress relief, and has no environmental or moral downsides. Porn is better for the environment, animals rights, and,…
Porn is extraordinarily destructive. To say that it has no moral downsides is incredible: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201601/ev...
Lesser evil and all that.
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#189Does anyone else recollect the expression “no one owes you a business model”? There’s many reasons Patreon should want to avoid being a porn payments processor. Blame American Puritanism or whatever, but that’s the milieu in which they operate. They don’t owe it to anyone to bear excess risk just so that someone else can have a profitable hustle at their expense. If this is such a big issue for the LGBT community Fun…
Re: An Open Letter to Patreon
#190> "Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. " The writer uses "people of color" and "whose first language is not English" to build a case for the author's own desire. The author doesn't truly serve in the interests of the black community, immigrants or any of these groups…