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An Open Letter to Patreon

openlettertopatreon.com

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Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#151

Post by dmerfield »

arkades wrote: post #109

Does anyone else recollect the expression “no one owes you a business model”? There’s many reasons Patreon should want to avoid being a porn payments processor. Blame American Puritanism or whatever, but that’s the milieu in which they operate. They don’t owe it to anyone to bear excess risk just so that someone else can have a profitable hustle at their expense. If this is such a big issue for the LGBT community Fun…

Right, when Patreon started kicking off people on the fringes of the political spectrum (Nazis, Antifa, Alt-right) they moved to a 'free-speech' alternative called Hatreon:

https://hatreon.net/

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#152

Post by lmm »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #140
timthelion wrote: post #116

As a white hetro male who consumes porn, as do %90 of us white hetro males do. I do not understand how it can be "fine" and "modern" for us to watch porn. But not "fine" and "modern" for the women who produce it to be paid for it. Porn is one of the few products out there that provides real value, real stress relief, and has no environmental or moral downsides. Porn is better for the environment, animals rights, and,…

There is a moral downside to porn. There's plenty that is uploaded without the person's consent (sometimes by a bitter ex). There's also a lot of stories out there of people being coerced and made uncomfortable to continue filming when they didn't want to. I imagine this is the minority, but there's definitely issues within the porn industry.

Patreon, where consumers have a direct relationship with individual creators, would seem like the perfect way to avoid those issues though.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#153

Post by mfoy_ »

dmerfield wrote: post #151
arkades wrote: post #109

Does anyone else recollect the expression “no one owes you a business model”? There’s many reasons Patreon should want to avoid being a porn payments processor. Blame American Puritanism or whatever, but that’s the milieu in which they operate. They don’t owe it to anyone to bear excess risk just so that someone else can have a profitable hustle at their expense. If this is such a big issue for the LGBT community Fun…

Right, when Patreon started kicking off people on the fringes of the political spectrum (Nazis, Antifa, Alt-right) they moved to a 'free-speech' alternative called Hatreon: https://hatreon.net/

That's.... kind of hilariously self-aware.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#154

Post by dmerfield »

badlucklottery wrote: post #12
corobo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good idea with an awful name on it. My first flash thought was a place for funding hate. It did click a moment later that it's a play on the Patreon name more "I hate Patreon" but it just feels.. wrong.

>My first flash thought was a place for funding hate. That's unfortunately not a bad guess. Go check out some of their "featured creators". It's pretty much the bottom of the hate speech barrel.

They're the hardest people to defend and that's exactly why their freedom of speech needs to be defended.

When you can't say 'fuck', you can't say 'fuck the draft':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_v._California

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#155

Post by falcolas »

arkades wrote: post #138
falcolas wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you explicitly court particular industry (amateur/niche porn) to build out your own business model, yeah, I think you do owe those businesses a business model. Perhaps not legally, but morally. > Fund a goddamn KS to make a porn-friendly Patreon clone Pretty sure you can't KS an adult business (which such a clone would be considered). That's part of the problem. Nobody wants to touch that industry once they become…

I’ve seen no evidence that they have actively courted that niche, though. As far as I can see, they’ve had a policy of benign neglect - which is far from the same thing.

If you make the charitable assumption that the letter's writers are not lying, this relationship is clearly spelled out at the top of the second paragraph:

> Over the last couple years we have been courted by you, worked closely with you on promotion, creation, and even website features, and have been assured by you that Patreon was a home for all types of creators – including those that make adult content.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#156

Post by cisanti »

Such a weird wording, it feels like blackmailing the company to get what you want, otherwise you're a racist or bigot.

I can see it working but the letter left a very bad taste in my mouth and also repeats the stereotype that the people they list are only into sex, porn.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#157

Post by solatic »

arkades wrote: post #109

Does anyone else recollect the expression “no one owes you a business model”? There’s many reasons Patreon should want to avoid being a porn payments processor. Blame American Puritanism or whatever, but that’s the milieu in which they operate. They don’t owe it to anyone to bear excess risk just so that someone else can have a profitable hustle at their expense. If this is such a big issue for the LGBT community Fun…

If Patreon is worried about associating their brand with pornography, they could still spin off a sister site under an entirely different domain, brand, and infrastructure, but with the same underlying codebase.

If Big Food and Big Opthalmology and Big Others can present the illusion of competition by having one parent company own all the brands on the market, why not Patreon?

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#158

Post by Xeoncross »

> "Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. "

The writer uses "people of color" and "whose first language is not English" to build a case for the author's own desire. The author doesn't truly serve in the interests of the black community, immigrants or any of these groups they are name-dropping.

I guess, every one's doing it though. Think of the children!

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#159

Post by klipt »

lmm wrote: post #152
whamlastxmas wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a moral downside to porn. There's plenty that is uploaded without the person's consent (sometimes by a bitter ex). There's also a lot of stories out there of people being coerced and made uncomfortable to continue filming when they didn't want to. I imagine this is the minority, but there's definitely issues within the porn industry.

Patreon, where consumers have a direct relationship with individual creators, would seem like the perfect way to avoid those issues though.

What if Patreon wants to be family friendly, and allowing the selling of porn on Patreon ruins that image?

Seems like a business opportunity for another website to take that niche, a "Porntreon" if you will.

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