Interview with Mr. Money Mustache • Hacker News Board

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#181

Post by elihu » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

dsacco wrote: post #4

Something I’m curious about regarding Mr. Money Mustache - is he actually retired, in the sense that he doesn’t do anything to bring in income (except through passive index investing)? It seems like he has a brand that is pretty lucrative, so it’s unclear to me if he: 1. has enough money to be functionally retired at his current lifestyle, but chooses to continue his brand anyway, 2. has enough money to be functional…

He has said that he has enough money as is, but continues to do what he does because it's more interesting than sitting on his thumbs all day.

Being retired or financially independent is really about being able to do what you like when you want to and not having to worry about money. Choosing not to work at all simply to conform to what other people's expectations about what you're "allowed" to do if you call yourself retired is kind of silly.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-...

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#182

Post by dceddia » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

stlHusker wrote: post #127

ahelwer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha. The MMM community calls people espousing this sort of view "the retirement police". I have no idea what this complaint intends to accomplish beyond adherence to some kind of radical linguistic prescriptivism. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-...

You can't claim to be financially independent and come back two years later with this gem: "The secret is that my wife is no longer really retired, and in fact she started a business that is now big enough to FUND OUR ENTIRE FAMILY'S LIFESTYLE." http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/03/06/etsy-shop/ If not outright dishonest, it certainly gives the off appearance that you can't put any weight in the numbers he is throw…

MMM gave a talk last year[0] where one of his key points was "Work is better when you don't need the money."

That's what he's doing when he says he is "retired" and yet works odd jobs to make money, or his wife sells things on Etsy for fun. I do think there's something behind the idea that it's more fun to do money-generating activities when you don't need the money they generate.

Also, his talk is pretty funny (and a good intro to his way of thinking for those who haven't read any of his stuff). Worth a watch.

[0]: https://vimeo.com/183016901

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#183

Post by J-dawg » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

stlHusker wrote: post #127

ahelwer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha. The MMM community calls people espousing this sort of view "the retirement police". I have no idea what this complaint intends to accomplish beyond adherence to some kind of radical linguistic prescriptivism. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-...

You can't claim to be financially independent and come back two years later with this gem: "The secret is that my wife is no longer really retired, and in fact she started a business that is now big enough to FUND OUR ENTIRE FAMILY'S LIFESTYLE." http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/03/06/etsy-shop/ If not outright dishonest, it certainly gives the off appearance that you can't put any weight in the numbers he is throw…

I think his definition of "retired" is pretty simple:

his family could cover all of their living expenses from investment income alone.

When you think about it, this is pretty much what we mean by "normal" retirement as well. If a 70 year old retiree does some maintenance on his rental property we don't accuse him of lying about being retired.

Your point about medical bills doesn't really hold water. I'm sure plenty of unlucky people who retired at a more conventional age end up having to come out of retirement because of an unforeseen tragedy.

Unless you want to change the definition of "retired" to: "having sufficient investment income to cover any possible expense that you or your family could possibly incur from now until your death, without ever doing a single hour of paid work"

I don't agree with MMM all the time but accusing him of not being retired does seem like a pointless exercise in semantics.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#184

Post by otterpro » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

The easiest way to retire early is to enlist in the military, at least in the US, anyway. After 20 years of service, you are set for life with life-long retirement pension and healthcare. Of course, there's a high risk, since there's always wars and deployments, etc and many don't make it past 10 years, after they get fed up with being in the military.

When I was in the army, I saw a lot of people in their early 40's who retired after their service, and many spent their time either working in another job, because of boredom of retirement, or activities like traveling. These were those who enlisted right after high school, with nothing but a HS degree, but they were doing much better off than my friends who had college and MBA.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#185

Post by brndnmtthws » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

pdog wrote: post #177

brndnmtthws wrote: post #25

Does anyone else think it's a bit funny to see an MMM interview on YC? Through their investments, YC seems quite pro-consumerism. Consumerism is the antithesis of being mustachian. It's always kind of bothered me that HN (and YC) seems to encourage conspicuous consumption.

Technically, YC is selling consumerism if they invest in startups that encourage conspicuous consumption. If you're selling consumerism and buying mustachianism, it means you think the former is overpriced.

+5 Insightful.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#186

Post by ForRealsies » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #170

ForRealsies wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being frugal is the biggest baloney to wealth. People like you and I obsess over it because $COST_OF_LIVING is the one variable of the Income Wealth Equation we can control. You want to become wealthy? Affect millions.

It's a two step process. 1) Make lots of money 2) Don't spend it all You need to succeed at both steps to be wealthy. However doing well at either step will still improve your circumstances.

Yes! You need an incredible flow of income to become wealthy (selling your company, book you wrote becomes a hit, etc). You cannot accomplish step 1 through a job.

Rich people telling you to invest in mutual funds and treasuries to become wealthy are frauds. That's what you do to MAINTAIN wealth, not to generate wealth.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#187

Post by davidw » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

joeax wrote: post #50

joeax wrote: post #19

I've been reading his blog for a few years, and he does some have some insightful advice on shedding unnecessary expenses and living on a frugal spending diet. I've been able to get down to one car that is almost paid off, and double my savings and investment portfolio. My favorite article from him is living close enough to work to bike (although working from home is most ideal). However, his blog comes with a bit of…

I'm going to extend my comment. I've been reading James Altucher's books like "Choose Yourself" and his blog. Altucher's philosophy is somewhat similar, except he focuses on tapping into your creative mind and finding unique ways to supplement your income to the point that you're not necessarily retired, but doing what you love. The goal then is not necessarily to retire, but to just get to a point where you are work…

> tapping into your creative mind and finding unique ways to supplement your income

One of the things I do like about MMM is that there's none of this handwaviness - it's much more straightforward: get a good job and be frugal.

It's great if you can come up with a good alternative source of income, but it's not easy and not for everyone.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#188

Post by mod » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

Something that seems to be lost in this thread, which looks to be mostly a debate about whether or not early retirement is feasible for normal people:

For normal people, MMM strategy is about making uncomfortable decisions (plain, reliable used cars, no fine dining, no fancy houses, no downtown-big-city living locations) to avoid the most uncomfortable thing of all: work.

If you would rather have a job your whole life so you never have to eat a bean or drive a 20 year old car, you're not the target audience. People who are driven to early retirement & financial independence are people who DESPISE jobs and are willing to spend their whole life at a much smaller income bracket in exchange for not having one.

They don't want your new devices, cable tv, leased cars, and downtown apartments. They agree those things are nice, but not nice enough to take on an extra 40,000 hours of "servitude" with an employer.

The strategy is simple: if you can live on 20% of your income, and save the rest, then in a few years, you will have the ability to reproduce that same income indefinitely. The amount of the income doesn't matter, and that is being lost here for some reason. If you can't do 20%, you can do 30% and a few extra years. Or whatever.

The MMM strategy is about ditching the job, and balancing the trade-offs to something you can stomach. If you can't stomach it, fine, but that doesn't mean it's not a viable strategy.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#189

Post by astura » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #114

astura wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MMM is too smug and pushy for a good portion of the general public. His writing can awfully hostile, it could be toned down a bit and his message would get further - some of his advice is very sensible. The problem with frugal blogs (in general) is they do one or more of the following; push penny pinching 24/7, "if you aren't eating lentils everyday and living in a cardboard box you're fucking up," they are too conde…

I think MMM knows his audience, it isn't for me but I can imagine many people do get something out of it. Really the main problem is there just isn't much to say, spend less than you earn, invest the difference, develop some self-sufficiency.

I didn't know what "spend less than you earn, invest the difference, develop some self-sufficiency" meant 15-20 or so years ago though, they were just words. I didn't know what a 401(k) was, I didn't know what an IRA was, I didn't know what a brokerage account was, I didn't know what a mutual fund was, I didn't know what an ETF was, I didn't know what "equity" meant, I only had a vague idea of what investments were, I didn't even know what the stock market was other than "its something to do with money."

Plus that advise isn't applicable to everyone. A college student doesn't have the same finances as a dual income couple in their 30s with two kids. Someone with a $70k income has much different prorities than someone with a $30k income. I think finances is a journey, not a destination.

I think one of the first tenets of financial freedom/independence is figuring out life priorities, not everyone is going to have the same spending because everyone really enjoys different things. Oftentimes people don't even know what they really enjoy and where their spending brings them most life satisfaction so it requires a lot of self reflection and communication/negotiation with family members and maybe questioning cultural norms and expectations. I don't think that financial independence/frugality should about hording money so much as it should be about making your money work for you in the most optimal way possible.

There's also nuances to discussions about money like how it affects interpersonal relationships (and not just romantic ones) and the psychological aspects of money and spending.

You have a good point about him "know[ing] his audience" though, so thank you for pointing that out.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#190

Post by dceddia » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

ggggtez wrote: post #146

Rich guy tells poor guys, "to get rich, trick poor guys to listen to you". He's not wrong but you're all fools for caring about what he has to say.

His message is basically summarized as "Spend less than you earn, and invest it in index funds."

He's not wrong, but I submit that the people implementing that advice aren't fools, either.