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De-Googleify Internet

degooglisons-internet.org

181–190 of 266 posts

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#181
post #91
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like nowadays you can just Google "how do I change my oil" or "why do spiders make webs" and I pretty much always get something good. It seems to me as if you can just ask Google the way you would a normal person. I know that wasn't always the case, but I'm curious what specifically you feel like you need to learn about using Google today.

My wife does this. It drives me crazy; I'm thinking "That's not how you search! You should just type 'changing oil'." But she gets the results she's looking for anyway so she doesn't listen.

> My wife does this. It drives me crazy; I'm thinking "That's not how you search! You should just type 'changing oil'." But she gets the results she's looking for anyway so she doesn't listen.

And why should she? Is she happy with the results? Google has done it's job. The keywords aren't there for you, they're there for Google so they can make searching work even if you lard up your search with unnecessary words.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#182

I love the reasons for doing something like this, and I'm personally really glad that people are investing time in trying to solve this problem. That said, I think that one of the big mistakes that these initiatives make is trying to solve all of the problems that Google solves, under one roof. It's impossible. The only way Google is able to manage it is that they are an absolutely huge software organization. No free…

> You end up with lots of different closed-source, for-profit companies in the list, but none of your data is concentrated in any one large player.

But many of these companies are going to offer their services for free, which means advertising and you're right back to square one, except now your data is in the hands of someone completely unknown.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#183

It's unlikely to happen as the vast majority of the public simply does not care . There is a deep technological disconnect. The only way to de-google-ify is to bring about mesh network that runs on our mobile devices or volunteer run nodes. Maybe you need to take the Skytrain to a remote part of the city to access specific information because there are no nodes there yet. The centralized infrastructure created betwee…

I think the public doesn't care for a good reason; no one has articulated a realistic, tangible cost to quality of life caused by letting Google track you. Lots of people talk about it being 'creepy' and dreaming up possible scenarios where it WOUDLD be costly, but for most people, the costs simply aren't actually felt. I am trying to think about it for me personally, and I can't come up with a single time that Googl…

> Seriously, though; how is my life negatively impacted (in actuality, not hypothetically), in a way that I can notice the difference, by letting Google track me?

People have lost their freedom because their Google search history was used against them in court:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2006/02/subpoenas-and-your-pri...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/01/csi-google-winnin...

http://www.oddee.com/item_98930.aspx

http://volokh.com/2012/06/07/search-history-as-evidence-in-a...

https://techcrunch.com/2012/11/25/google-search-history-murd...

https://www.cnet.com/news/police-blotter-web-searches-lead-t...

http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2016/08/ho...

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#184
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You "can" sign up for gmail without a phone number (iirc it's fairly difficult, and you need to do something like use a fresh install of an android device or something to trigger the right sequence of dialogues). However if you try to use that account outside of the device, they will soon (within a couple of logins) ask you for a phone number for "security purposes," - the dialogue says something like "there is somet…

Asking for a phone number seems pretty valid. The number of times people forget their password, or accidentally type it into a phishing site, or re-use passwords across different websites where one of them (e.g. Yahoo) get breached.... Without a recovery phone number, these people are hosed - and they've lost data, photos, contacts, email, their entire digital life etc. That's a pretty poor user experience. So most p…

The security considerations are valid, but this is missing the point.

The point is rather that google is in the business of selling personal information, and that telephone numbers are valuable personal information. As such, some people don't trust google with this information despite the valid pretext.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the post? This is about avoiding tracking. And yes, signing up for accounts can be grueling. Try making a google account without submitting a blood sample.

Why would Google create a high barrier of entry to get you on their platform? Their entire business model is based on tracking and advertising, so they have every incentive to lower this barrier to the greatest degree possible.

It's about having high-quality information about these people. Google would rather have fewer people that are more valuable.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#186
post #43
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long felt that RMS/FSF's very specific and nonintuitive usage of "free" was intended to be misleading. If someone says "free" (which has many, many different meanings, all positive) when they really mean "copyleft" (which has one very complicated meaning), they're not trying to clarify anything, rather they're trying to muddy the waters so that people who don't understand copyleft or the FSF's political philosop…

By RMS? Why would he make his message intentionally less clear?

He does this stuff all the time, he's always used language in a very Orwellian manner. It's much easier to promote "freedom" (which means all sorts of things to different people, all of them positive) than it is to promote copyleft and all that it entails. Everybody loves freedom right? But it is obfuscating, hence the neverending confusion about exactly what he means when he uses terms like "free", "freedom", and "free software".

In general, he seems to be almost obsessively sensitive to how the words used to frame ideas can influence someone's feelings towards those ideas ("GNU/Linux"...). Which of course is true, words are very important. However, he channels this obsession with words towards obfuscation rather than clarity. He's very fond of always using derogatory puns for things he doesn't like in his essays, or incorrect acronym expansion. For example, always referring to DRM as "Digital Restrictions Management"- apropos and humorous as it may be, for me it's hard to not feel like he's treating his audience like children and thinks they can be influenced by wordplay. He has expended an utterly tremendous amount of energy over the past 3 decades scolding people for using incorrect terminology, when in fact the confusion over terminology almost entirely comes from him trying to redefine common terms, or him trying to change the term people commonly use to refer to something to another term that carries some sort of loaded meaning.

It's a rhetorical technique, but it's a particular type of rhetorical technique that has always raised massive red flags for me, regardless of who is using it or for what purpose.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#187
post #50
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long felt that RMS/FSF's very specific and nonintuitive usage of "free" was intended to be misleading. If someone says "free" (which has many, many different meanings, all positive) when they really mean "copyleft" (which has one very complicated meaning), they're not trying to clarify anything, rather they're trying to muddy the waters so that people who don't understand copyleft or the FSF's political philosop…

It's less confusing when you focus on the 'freedom of the users'. Maybe that's the part of the message that's been most lost over the years. Focusing so much on free/libre that the group to which it applies (everyone (else), end users) is forgotten. Freedom for the users is the empowerment to treat ideas and expressions of ideas as simply that. A restoration to the laws of nature which make the cost of copying an ide…

No, it's really not. If I'm an end-user who wants to do something, and you tell me that what I want isn't available for my own good (because anyone who built it would be violating my freedom), I'm going to at best think you're being disingenuous. And might want to punch you in the face a bit.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#188
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was explaining to an adult yesterday that using -x will remove x from his google results. He was stoked! Then he concluded further that he could use +x too! I hated to have to disappoint him.

IIRC +x keeps google from returning results that exclude the x term. e.g. "x y z" ~ "x y z" + "x y" + "y z" + "x z" + "x" + "y" + "z" where "+x y +z" ~ "x y z" + "x z" Still, I would imagine this isn't exactly the behavior your friend would have expected.

I was referring to the Google+ fiasco and how + is no longer an operator. Instead, now you have to "quote" "for" "inclusion".

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/webse...

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#190
post #27

> These services track us everywhere, while claiming to give us a better “user experience”. That's kind of the problem though; they usually _do_ offer a better user experience. If we want users to start using open source software rather than walled garden solutions from large companies, we're going to have to start building open source solutions which offer a comparable user experience to proprietary ones from large…

"Open source" is irrelevant here; the issue is whether services are part of the surveillance economy. Google search is sometimes better than DuckDuckGo, possibly because they can afford more crawling, and sometimes worse because you need to try to out-smart their algorithm to escape your personal filter bubble. Neither company is "open source," but DDG has a simple, non-invasive business model: they show ads based on search terms.

"Open source" and "walled garden" are orthogonal.

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