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ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

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Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#181

There's a general attitude to some of the comments here. "Another altcoin." "I wouldn't weigh the odds that this specific system really lasting more than 4 years out especially high." ZCash isn't just another fly-by-night cryptocurrency scam. It's a serious engineering effort that was carefully undertaken by some very well-known cryptography and security experts. Matthew Green Daira Hopwood Taylor Hornby Ian Meiers Z…

An "attitude" pump, really? :)

I was one of the first and most dismissive when bitcoin was released. I'm on record saying "yet another p2p currency piece of crap" one ~day after its January 2009 announcement and release. There are so many endless p2p currencies out there-- this was even the case when bitcoin was first launched-- so many that, frankly, any dismissive attitude is completely justified. You can't go around saying "you're too dismissive" because by doing so you commit the same crime you're accusing others of committing. Keep in mind that for some of us there's a lot of background in reviewing cryptocurrency proposals; it came as surprise to me to later learn that there was actual working source code associated with bitcoin rather than merely manifesto emails.

Also, "I wouldn't weigh the odds that this specific system really lasting more than 4 years out especially high" is clearly a reference to the author's experience analyzing (or reviewing) zk-SNARKs and related cryptocurrency proposals. I suspect even Zooko would readily admit that there are alternative SNARKs constructions that they might move towards over time. Heck, it was nullc who pointed out to me that Bryan Parno had published on a libsnark security hole: https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/437 -- and besides, it's not yet time to say that the trusted setup and the host of new cryptographic assumptions are rock solid... otherwise let's merge this into bitcoin. "Attitude", ha.

Also... it's not clear whether a high-privacy cryptocurrency, built by a specific nameable centralized company, is able to both operate as a legal business entity while still ensuring they are not operating under secret court orders from secret courts or other adversarial government interests, such as to inject silent inflation or otherwise compromise your integrity. It's too early to dismiss the concerns (of adversarial intervention) regarding the financial link between the Zcash developers and the Zcash cryptocurrency. (It may not be clear to casual readers that, unlike in Zcash, in bitcoinland there's no protocol rules about paying developers from the mining subsidy reward amounts. There are very strong reasons for why this is still the case.)

(If you are going to have adversarial intervention like that, then you might as well use a much more directly centralized currency. It's not enough to handwave about the wonders of crypto and theoretical computer science while subjecting your work to extreme adversarial intervention. High-privacy designs in a centralized system can somewhat work, even if you were to want to explicitly make a backdoor for whatever law enforcement interests you pledge loyalty to.)

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#182
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the founders are incentivized to support Zcash for the long haul (at least for four years) Four years is not the long haul when talking about a new currency.

Four years is an extremely long time when talking about a new currency.

A currency from 2016, maybe. Not on the greater scale of things. I'd argue the dollar has only recently hit maturity in the past 50 years, being written into law in the 1790s [1]. The yuan has been around for over 2,000 years [2].

Currencies take time for sure.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar?wprov=sfl...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_yuan?wprov=sfla1

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people behind ZCash are definitely not "scammers"; they're respected computer scientists and applied cryptography engineers.

They may have some flashy names, but there's no truely provable reason to believe they're better than the fly-by-night guys who pop up on bitcoinforums with a new altcoin and dump it as soon as it's up and running. Since there's no cryptographically provable way to know they won't do this, well, we have to assume it's what they'll do. Distrust is the basis for cryptocurrencies afterall.

There's no truly provable reason to believe anyone isn't a scammer. Many supposedly reputable people in the finance industry are eventually revealed to be scammers. It's unavoidable.

But these guys are much less likely to be scammers than the typical no-name GitHub/Twitter/Bitcoinforums accounts promoting a new revolutionary coin.

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#184
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything there about zkSNARKs?

Sorry to get it personal but it seems you are very shortsighted and need to see a specific keyword to understand the capabilities of the people. Please let me know what specific topic of zkSNARK you find challenging to explain and we can write a blog post about it.

I don't want to see a specific keyword; all I'm saying is that there is nothing on that website indicating any great knowledge of theoretical cryptography. For instance: no proofs, formal definitions, nothing. Not even links to other websites hosting such things.

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#185
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything there about zkSNARKs?

Sorry to get it personal but it seems you are very shortsighted and need to see a specific keyword to understand the capabilities of the people. Please let me know what specific topic of zkSNARK you find challenging to explain and we can write a blog post about it.

Off topic, I'd actually be very interested in a cryptographer's guide to zkSNARK...

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been reading through and also noticing this. I was looking for a better explanation too - from what I understand basically: Monero uses ringCT algorithm on transfer to mix the payments and obfuscate the sender Monero has a private view key and separate spend key. View key can decrypt transactions made by you to confirm your total balance (Monero balance is unknown to daemon, is calculated as (xmrRecieved - xmr…

What is the difference between a currency and a commodity? If the rate of appreciation is perceived as high enough, and the exchange rate into goods and services is high enough, anyone will have a tendency to hoard a currency - why wouldn't you? It would be simple to create an alt-coin that degrades in value over time, thus encouraging circulation and not hoarding (though how you would battle fake-circulation through…

> What is the difference between a currency and a commodity?

Whether you want to spend it.

> If the rate of appreciation is perceived as high enough, and the exchange rate into goods and services is high enough, anyone will have a tendency to hoard a currency - why wouldn't you?

Of course it's reasonable to do in such a situation, but that doesn't make it good for the thing being hoarded. Ideally a currency would have minimal appreciation.

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#187
post #51

Here's a question: I can see the value in an anonymized blockchain for use by individuals... ...but, is there a reason that anonymity would be good for use in a blockchain for use by businesses? Or, is it categorically better for a business-centric blockchain to have the most identity possible?

They touch on that in the link. "“There are regulatory and commercial and moral reasons for privacy from all sectors,” he says. To give a commercial example: Apple wouldn’t want Samsung to be able to track its transactions and gain valuable competitive intelligence." I agree with this sentiment.

On the other hand, how do you deal with the for the for proving who the currency belongs to, for example in the case of death (and the person never shared their passwords/keys)?

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#188
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to get it personal but it seems you are very shortsighted and need to see a specific keyword to understand the capabilities of the people. Please let me know what specific topic of zkSNARK you find challenging to explain and we can write a blog post about it.

I don't want to see a specific keyword; all I'm saying is that there is nothing on that website indicating any great knowledge of theoretical cryptography. For instance: no proofs, formal definitions, nothing. Not even links to other websites hosting such things.

I really feel frustrated by your lack of search/manual-crawling/link-clicking/understanding capabilities. He was the official security reviewer of Bitcoin and Ethereum. Then some extra references so you can continue your own search:

- "MPF (Mental Poker Framework): A new family of practical and secure Mental Poker protocols" http://www.dc.uba.ar/inv/tesis/licenciatura/2010/lerner

- MAVEPAY: a new lightweight payment scheme for peer to peer currency networks: https://bitslog.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/mavepay1.pdf

- Strict Memory Hard Hashing Functions: http://www.hashcash.org/papers/memohash.pdf referenced in the Ethereum original paper: http://gavwood.com/paper.pdf

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#189
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'scam developers'? A bit harsh isn't it?

They're running a pump and dump, sure, they made it rate limited, but a delayed pump and dump is still a pump and dump.

A pump and dump that was started at John Hopkins and been being worked on for three years? Wat?
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