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ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

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Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#101
I am long Zcash:

* The founder is Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn, creator of Zooko's triangle, the BLAKE2 hash function, Tahoe-LAFS, and former employee at MojoNation (an early attempt at cryptocurrency/P2P filesharing where another employee, Beam Cohen, went on to create Bittorrent). He knows a thing or two about decentralization/P2P.

* This project is NOT a trivial Bitcoin clone with only a new proof-of-work swapped in. The Zero Knowledge Proofs they use to keep transactions private is state of the art crypto. Also their PoW is actually memory-hard (many currencies have used PoW functions which they thought would be memory-hard and ASIC-proof, such as Litecoin with Scrypt, but it turned out not to be the case).

* Their "Founders Reward" is less like a premine and more like startup vested equity (it pays out to them gradually over 4 years to incentive themselves not to pump and dump).

* The team is extremely helpful in the Zcash Slack and are a relief after dealing with the pedantic, difficult Bitcoin developers.

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#102
post #39

Another altcoin. This one has a 10% pre-mining cut for the founders: "Zcash's monetary base will be the same as Bitcoin's — 21 million Zcash currency units (ZEC, or ⓩ) will be mined over time. 10% of that reward will be distributed to the stakeholders in the Zcash Company — founders, investors, employees, and advisors. We call this the “Founders Reward”." Here's a list of the other 709 altcoins.[1] 373 of them are st…

"Premined" is not strictly accurate. 1/10 of the mining reward will eventually go toward a wallet controlled by the developers. The rate of the incentive payments starts out high and decreases over time. [1] This is different from a premine or instamine, where the devs begin life with a stash of protocol tokens, which they then have a strong inclination to dump on the market. Zcash 10% vig is an improvement over inst…

Did anyone fork or clone Ethereum to cut out the developer's premine? I'd be interested in an Ethereum-like, but only without the politics of forking based on protecting assets of the original developers.

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#103
I'm a big believer in privacy, but anonymity scares me. Anonymity invites bad behavior: look at how bitcoin -- which isn't even all that anonymous -- has enabled the ransomware industry.

I agree that it is very important for people to be able to conduct financial transactions without having to disclose them to third parties. It's also important for people to be able to use a mutually-agreed-upon trusted third party to mediate transactions where neither party knows the other's identity. But I'm much less convinced of the wisdom of enabling people to conduct financial transactions with no possibility of knowing who they are doing business with. That seems to me to be fraught with all manner of moral hazard.

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#105
post #101

I am long Zcash: * The founder is Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn, creator of Zooko's triangle, the BLAKE2 hash function, Tahoe-LAFS, and former employee at MojoNation (an early attempt at cryptocurrency/P2P filesharing where another employee, Beam Cohen, went on to create Bittorrent). He knows a thing or two about decentralization/P2P. * This project is NOT a trivial Bitcoin clone with only a new proof-of-work swapped in. The…

What do you think about Cryptonote projects? Such as Monero, Boolberry, a variety of other similar networks

Some advantages Cryptonote has that come to mind:

- They are private by default. Zcash requires two states, a state analogous to bitcoin, and the anonymous zcash state which has to be explicitely opted into. Shadowcash also has this, but opted for ring signatures for the anonymous state (like cryptonote coins use by default) instead of the zkSNARKs. The market hasn't focused much attention on Shadowcash.

- Cryptonote projects have proof of work algorithms that are durable and so far ASIC-proof. Cryptonite, Wild Keccak still are CPU and GPU friendly. But I'd have to read their respective papers before I say "ASIC Proof because memory hard"

- Cryptonote are also auditable if a user wants to reveal information about a transaction. But even then the information is limited, it will show that payments came in and out of specific amounts, but it won't show the sending/receiving address along with those transaction IDs.

- Cryptonote projects have nonthreatening names. Many privacy centric projects have names like Dark- Shadow- Anon- whereas noteworthy cryptonote projects have names that at worst simply wouldn't be taken seriously by a "powerful establishment" until so much capital and infrastructure is already built. I think ZCash or "Zerocash" isn't going to get smiles and congratulations from FinCEN. Hyperbole, but I don't think it is an advantage for the project.

Its one thing to be optimistic about the founders and their company, but for you to say "long" something that doesn't seem like a better investment, makes me wonder what you see in comparison to some other existing technologies.

Looking forward to your thoughts

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Premined" is not strictly accurate. 1/10 of the mining reward will eventually go toward a wallet controlled by the developers. The rate of the incentive payments starts out high and decreases over time. [1] This is different from a premine or instamine, where the devs begin life with a stash of protocol tokens, which they then have a strong inclination to dump on the market. Zcash 10% vig is an improvement over inst…

Did anyone fork or clone Ethereum to cut out the developer's premine? I'd be interested in an Ethereum-like, but only without the politics of forking based on protecting assets of the original developers.

Yes, there are various clonese, possibly premined by clone devs! I won't mention any b/c I don't want to appear to endorse any.

To my knowledge, ETHC maintained chain of title with original ETH up to the fork. However, the DAO exploits may have transferred some of the premine to the team that worked the exploit, to the extent any of the devs invested in the ill-fated DAO.

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#107
post #7

The blockchain is slowly going to become a dominant pillar of our transactions. Whether it be information, money, etc., blockchain will probably be a part of it. If we want it to be secure anyway...

If we want it to be secure anyway... Oh God, I'm _really_ hoping you're being sarcastic. You've read about the dozens on dozens of compromised exchanges? You heard about the DAO hack? You realize that the majority of bitcoin is mined by like a dozen people in China? Maybe someday we'll get our act together, but right now blockchains are a recipe for FUD and centralization. (I say this as someone who thinks bitcoin is…

tolerable growing pains

all of those things improve the resilience of the implementations

exactly as the original white paper suggested

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#108
post #101

I am long Zcash: * The founder is Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn, creator of Zooko's triangle, the BLAKE2 hash function, Tahoe-LAFS, and former employee at MojoNation (an early attempt at cryptocurrency/P2P filesharing where another employee, Beam Cohen, went on to create Bittorrent). He knows a thing or two about decentralization/P2P. * This project is NOT a trivial Bitcoin clone with only a new proof-of-work swapped in. The…

As you are zealously talking your zcash book, maybe you would be willing to let me short this worthless charlatanry and transparent crytopportunism to you for actual dollars? Via a personal CFD?

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#109
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how complicated the technology is that they will be working with (as someone who has attempted to read the zcash whitepaper), I find this extremely unlikely. Sure there will be clones, but no altcoin "developer" will be able to properly maintain this, so bugs won't get fixed, or it'll always be lagging behind Zcash, or worse, they introduce unintentional bugs and completely wreck their blockchain and lose the m…

I wouldn't be so sure of that, there already exist some alternatives which seem better in some ways like Monero. I have very low trust for scam developers like the ZCash ones, I'm sure someone quite capable could take it up.

'scam developers'? A bit harsh isn't it?

Re: ZCash Will Be a Truly Anonymous Blockchain-Based Currency

#110
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem with that? It seems to be working so far.

It incentivizes hoarding over spending, especially in the face of an expanding economy. Though to be fair, the rate at which new cryptocurrency pools are being created seems to more than keep up with the growth of the economy. Who needs the government to print money when anybody can?

> it incentivizes hoarding over spending, especially in the face of an expanding economy.

That kind of macroeconomic analysis assumes that everybody already owns some amount of the currency.

However in the new currency markets that are developing, you have to consider the incentive to even start accepting a currency.

One that loses value over time is not attractive to the recipient.

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