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The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

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Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#181

Post by Grishnakh »

mmkk wrote: post #75
dmix wrote: post #46

Decided to try searching this and found this lovely site: > A=432 Hz, known as Verdi’s ‘A’ is an alternative tuning that is mathematically consistent with the universe. Music based on 432Hz transmits beneficial healing energy, because it is a pure tone of math fundamental to nature https://attunedvibrations.com/432hz/ Oh new age pseudo science. My mom loves this stuff and I never fully understood why. My sister gets…

Star Wars is nonsense too but it makes people happy. Nonsense spreads not just because of apathy.

Every work of fiction is "nonsense", but they still have value as entertainment and story-telling. The difference is that fictional works are understood by the reader/viewer to be fictional.

The problem with nonsense that purports to be true is that there's usually a scam attached to it, to separate people from their money. Fictional stories don't have this: everyone knows they're fictional before they spend their money on it, and they know what to expect from it (i.e. pure entertainment, not a cure for whatever ails you).

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#182

Post by drdeca »

syntheticnature wrote: post #133
nonbel wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so sure there is nothing special about the duration of a second. It comes from dividing a day into two sets of 12, then those 12 into five sets of 12 (12x5=60), then those 60s into 60 each. We know our bodies do follow circadian rhythms, so you have the initial link to length of day. Then everything else is split into sets of 12, a number with exceptional properties that natural selection may optimize t…

Except that our day length is also changing -- very slowly, but changing it is. Further, given that the human clock, disconnected from day/night feedback, apparently treats 24.2 hours as a day.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_clock

So, we could say that a "circadian second" is about 1.008 seconds? (On average)

How precisely is that 24.2 known I wonder..

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#183

Post by nzp »

DominikR wrote: post #159
nzp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitler himself was very intolerant of any of this mysticism business. All these activities and societies were banned in Germany once they came to power. There was a number of people, in SS mainly, who were deeply into mysticism, and that was tolerated because of their status. So Hitler wouldn't have sent people to search for the Arc, but Himmler & co. might. Just another illustration of a common misconception about n…

Well, I have no reason to doubt you regarding Hitler's personal beliefs, but I wouldn't call it a total misconception. I live in a German speaking country and the people here who still follow this ideology are frequently into the same insane mysticism. Of that I'm 100% sure because I've seen it quite often.

Oh, there's definitely a phenomenon of widespread taste for the occult in Nazi movements. I was just trying to point out that the bulk efforts of Nazi German state and agenda weren't influenced by that in an “official” way. But people like Himmler were obsessed, and they could get away with it with Hitler because they were otherwise useful to him. Of course, it's hard to say what's official and what's not when it comes to such regimes because of the ad hoc system of rule I mentioned: every figurehead had their own fiefdom so to say, governed mostly arbitrarily by their will, as long as it didn't conflict with Hitler's overall agenda, itself arbitrary and dependent upon whatever he came up with.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#184

Post by jameshart »

anigbrowl wrote: post #76

I have been following this for years, being both a sound engineer and a bit of a hippie who knows a lot of other hippies. The basic issue is that 432 is a numerologically interesting number compared to 440. So if it's more interesting it should be better for artistic purposes, goes the argument. However this falls flat as soon as you consider that the 432 is only interesting relative to the completely arbirtrary dura…

This is all true, of course. Only thing that might make some impact is the prevalence of electronic music devices that default to 120BPM, which of course gives you a downbeat every second. but 432 is not an interesting number for a computer, so that doesn't help. If music was made by robots, we'd have standardized on a middle C at 256Hz and 120BPM for everything.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#185

Post by gaur »

zokier wrote: post #171
gaur wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why they decided it was better to design and build an 11x multiplier and a 25x divider rather than cut a 440 kHz crystal and run it with a copy of the 1000x divider electronics they already had.

Because 1MHz crystals are common off-the-shelf items, 440kHz are not?

In order for that explanation to make sense, one has to assume that 11x multipliers and 25x dividers were common off-the-shelf items during the time period in question.

If the choice is between a custom crystal and two custom boards, the custom crystal is going to be the far less painful choice.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#186

Post by nitrogen »

zokier wrote: post #107
bravo22 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

439 being a prime would be an issue if you were up multiplying a lower frequency to generate it, for example using a PLL. However it is such a slow signal that it would be generated by dividing down a higher frequency. For example you can divide it down from an 18 MHz clock. So, nope his claim doesn't make sense.

439 from 18M requires a divisor of 41, which does sound trivial. Meanwhile 440 from 1M requires only dividing by 5 and 2 when first multiplied by 11, which might have been significantly simpler than dividing by 41. I wonder if there is some easy way of figuring out the simplest base number-multiplier-divisor chains for getting certain numbers?

I imagine historic gearmakers for watches and clocks would have worked out such a system.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#187

Post by jdmichal »

drdeca wrote: post #182
syntheticnature wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that our day length is also changing -- very slowly, but changing it is. Further, given that the human clock, disconnected from day/night feedback, apparently treats 24.2 hours as a day.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_clock

So, we could say that a "circadian second" is about 1.008 seconds? (On average) How precisely is that 24.2 known I wonder..

From the referenced Wikipedia link:

By recording the daily rhythms of hormones and body temperatures in 24 healthy young and old men and women over a one-month period, the researchers conclude that our internal clocks run on a daily cycle of 24 hours, 11 minutes.

...

Researchers previously reported a range of 13 to 65 hours, with a median of 25 hours, 12 minutes. The variation between our subjects, with a 95 percent level of confidence, was no more than plus or minus 16 minutes, a remarkably small range.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/1999/07/human-biologic...

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#188

Post by nitrogen »

zefhous wrote: post #49

On the subject, here's an interesting song that starts out at A432hz and makes its way up to A440hz by the end. Hideaway – Jacob Collier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v3zyPEy-Po I did not explicitly notice this the first time hearing it, but I certainly felt it. When I discovered the change it made sense to me. The mood is lifted over the course of the song as the tuning is also lifted. There are so many elements…

I sometimes vary the tuning in subtle ways in my piano music (using a software piano).

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#189

Post by largote »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #138
dhimes wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second is defined as the time it takes for two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the 133 Ce atom to make 9,192,631,770 transitions. How is that not special?

Because that definition was grandfathered in such that it matched the previous definition of a second up to the previously specified precision. You've just moved the arbitrary part to the number 9,192,631,770. The same thing was done for the meter (defined such that the speed of light is precisely 299,792,458 m/s), ampere (current which produces 2 × 10−7 N/m of force between two parallel conductors). There's plans to…

Couldn't the Kilogram be derived from the Liter, which in turn can be derived from the Meter? From what I recall:

- 1 Liter of pure water at 4 Celsius is 1 Kg.

- 1 Liter is a cube with 10 cm on each side.

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