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Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

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Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#181

Post by farcical_tinpot »

mjg59 wrote: post #25
13of40 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn't Linux support it? Is "RAID" mode based on some spec that was only provided to Microsoft and kept secret from everyone else?

Windows only supports it if you use the Intel storage driver - even Microsoft don't ship a driver that supports it.

> even Microsoft don't ship a driver that supports it.

.....and why do you suppose that is? Fake RAID drivers and hardware are shit that's why. It's an option that is hardly used, if ever, and I never thought I'd see the day when a system had it as its default.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#182

Post by seba_dos1 »

FireBeyond wrote: post #95
guelo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don't have any other channel to ask Lenovo besides the forums and (apparently more effectively) leaving poor reviews on Best Buy and Amazon.

No? There's no way to contact Lenovo corporate? No customer support? Just that forum?

If you read that forum thread you would know, that many of them already went past various ways to contact Lenovo and even got a "it's been escalated to dev team, but nothing more to say about it" reply there after a few months of complaining (that changed nothing of course).

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#183

Post by 6nf »

alexmat wrote: post #34
msh wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quote from the article: Why not offer the option to disable it? A user who does would end up with a machine that doesn't boot, and if they managed to figure that out they'd have worse power management. That increases support costs. For a consumer device, why would you want to? The number of people buying these laptops to run anything other than Windows is miniscule

Well, the minuscule group they just shat on is the same group of people who make purchasing decisions and recommendations for a ton of consumers. Even if someone doesn't run Linux, laptops that support it have often proven to be more reliable and have a higher resell value. For everyone asking me what laptop they should buy, I'll be sure to let them know how disorganized and confused Lenovo support tends to be.

If 1% of your customers cause 10% of support tickets, it might be profitable to stop selling to those customers. Lenovo has no obligation to you or anyone else.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#184

Post by DanBC »

tracker1 wrote: post #170
captainmuon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the old distinction between "should do legally" and just "should do". Of course I don't believe they should be forced to do anything. But then I reserve the right to be indignant about this. And I also think it is a bit stupid: Lenovo had a reputation for having serious business Laptops. They cared about power-user customers who wanted to configure everything, and they had good Linux support. Either they messed…

It's kind of sad that the less tweaked options for laptops seem to be asus and acer... neither of which are my top choice, but seem to be much better than what's coming out of HP or Lenovo in the low-mid range.

The low end of ASUS includes things like the X205TA.

Here's Debian: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Asus/X205TA

Here's Ubuntu (this is a very long thread): https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2254322

There's a video on youtube of a school tech support guy who has a bunch (149) of ASUS X200 to image the drives from a USB drive, and that involves updating the "bios" and then editing the bios settings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yectQ5MeS_Y

tl;dr: it's not fun on any of these netbooks.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#185

Post by Symmetry »

raesene9 wrote: post #89
captainmuon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the old distinction between "should do legally" and just "should do". Of course I don't believe they should be forced to do anything. But then I reserve the right to be indignant about this. And I also think it is a bit stupid: Lenovo had a reputation for having serious business Laptops. They cared about power-user customers who wanted to configure everything, and they had good Linux support. Either they messed…

oh I agree with you I absolutely think they should support Linux, personally it's my OS of choice for technical work and their lack of support here makes me less likely to buy their stuff in the future (my next laptop will likely be a Dell XPS 13 Developer edition, precisely because of their linux support)

I do wonder if Dell's trackpoints are going to suddenly improve now that IBM's old patents are expiring. If so maybe I'll get one too.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#186

Post by hlandau »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #149
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something was shittier in the past, doesn't excuse the present for still being shitty. Where did I say that Lenovo should change the default setting? To be clear, I'm perfectly fine with a default setting of RAID -- but right now, they also lock you out of changing it back to AHCI. What I think is reasonable is allowing users to change the setting back to AHCI (at their own risk, of course, as is the cas…

> Just because something was shittier in the past, doesn't excuse the present for still being shitty. You are right. No one's making excuses here :) > Where did I say that Lenovo should change the default setting? You didn't, I did. I was walking on Lenovo's shoes and asking myself "What's good for the business right now?". I was considering my options, so to speak. > What I think is reasonable is allowing users to c…

>Why is it reasonable? Does it bring more money to Lenovo shareholders?

Dear god, am I supposed to care about the shareholders now? People don't buy products out of empathy for shareholders.

I don't consider "higher support costs" to be a valid pretext for trying to obstruct me from configuring my property as I please.

The idea that people may cluelessly mess around in the BIOS and render the machine unbootable is not a particularly sensible basis to argue about the configurability of AHCI mode. It is always going to be possible to render a machine unbootable via changing the BIOS configuration. A BIOS setup menu cannot serve its purpose if it doesn't allow you to change settings which could render the machine unbootable. (Most directly, a boot password you immediately forget.) If machine manufacturers aren't willing to offer options that may render the machine unbootable, they may as well not offer BIOS setup menus at all.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#187

Post by [deleted] »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #92
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the uncritical tech press or the rubes on reddit, etc. Its obvious to me that we're living in a time where rumors, falsehoods, and purposeful misdirection are easily monetized and that's what our tech press has degenerated into. Critical voices just get downvoted away for being "shills" or somesuch. We live in a time where likes and upvotes control what we see and informed criticism being censored away by downvote…

As far as forums go, I find that HackerNews has one of the most civil and thought provoking discussions on the internet. This is most likely due to responsible moderation where differences of opinion are not only accepted, but respected. In fact, this forum practically moderates itself as I've seen many times a post gets downvoted into oblivion for making personal attacks or ad-hominem arguments. Perhaps this has to…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#189

Post by ocdtrekkie »

captainmuon wrote: post #97
rburhum wrote: post #67

What is crazy to me is that Lenovo is usually the brand that people recommend for Linux laptops. They are shooting themselves in the foot here. They may think that the number of people on Linux is too small, but I bet it is bigger than they think. It is just that there is no easy way to accurately census the amount of Linux users on their HW.

I used to recommend Lenovo (and before that, IBM) unconditionally for both Windows and Linux use. We called them the "Volvo of computers" because of their longevity, their performance, and their repairability. Now I'm writing this on a Yoga Pro 2, which is nice in principle, but it's slowly starting to get wobbly, screws are falling out, the color is peeling off the keys, and I can't use Linux because the color yello…

I have heard nothing but rave reviews for the XPS laptops which come officially supported with Ubuntu out of the box.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#190

Post by hdra »

farcical_tinpot wrote: post #179
mjg59 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They blocked the enabling of a setting which allows Linux to see the hard disk. Or, alternatively, they removed a firmware setting that makes their hardware work less well and didn't think about Linux at all.

> Or, alternatively, they removed a firmware setting that makes their hardware work less well Why would they remove it? Removing it requires effort, which hardware companies are loath to do. Leave the system in its actual supported state and change the default. Easy. There's only so many ways you can slip and slide on this Matthew ;-).

Hardware that works better = better sales, more money, less support cost?

There's only so many ways you can slip and slide on this ;-).

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