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How Paul Graham Gets It Wrong in “Economic Inequality”

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Re: How Paul Graham Gets It Wrong in “Economic Inequality”

#181

> Bill Gates gave an excellent summary of the argument against unchecked levels of economic inequality[2]: High levels of inequality are a problem — messing up economic incentives, tilting democracies in favor of powerful interests, and undercutting the ideal that all people are created equal. This is the problem right here. The "ideal that all people are created equal." The truth is, they are not. There are differen…

> This is the problem right here. The "ideal that all people are created equal." The truth is, they are not. There are differences in IQ, differences in emotional capacity, differences in physical strength, differences in programming ability, etc.

Here's what that phrase originally meant: European-style nobility is a mistake. It's not that you are better than me, not because of IQ, emotional capacity, physical strength, or anything of that nature. Instead, the idea was that you were better than me because your great-great-great-grandfather helped the king put his trousers on every morning, and got rewarded with a hereditary title, and you inherited it, and therefore you are my "better" because you have a title and I don't. And the older the title, the better it was, even though that means the less it had anything to do with you!

So when the Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal", it's not talking about IQ or physical strength. It's not even talking about different economic outcomes. It's talking about social/political standing conferred by birth.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in your conclusions...

Re: How Paul Graham Gets It Wrong in “Economic Inequality”

#182
It takes a special type of arrogance to support using violent force to take from some group of people to give to another, who you believe to be more deserving of that plot of wealth. Bill Gates has it. Paul Graham doesn't. And thus the supporter of income inequality is the more humble of the two.

Re: How Paul Graham Gets It Wrong in “Economic Inequality”

#183
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the rate is a fraction of what it was 30+ years ago. While the wealthy may pay the "majority" of taxes, I thought it was common knowledge that the uber wealthy pay proportionately less of their income in taxes then the lower and middle class -- which is inequality defined. I mainly just don't believe in vagina lotteries

"Yet the rate is a fraction of what it was 30+ years ago" ...yet the US is now the most prosperous nation on earth and our poor still have cell phones, a basic roof over their heads, and aren't eating rocks in the dirt. A 90% marginal tax rate (like it was 30+ years ago) won't be all rainbows and kittens. It will be a very, very different US. 'Startup' probably won't even be a word any longer if this happened. "I tho…

"...yet the US is now the most prosperous nation on earth and our poor still have cell phones, a basic roof over their heads, and aren't eating rocks in the dirt."

Lot of reasons for this, don't need to go into it. People have written books on it, and I am assuming you aren't directly correlating it with the tax rate.

"The 'uber wealthy' pay more in taxes than they will ever use in their lifetime..and probably 10,000 or more people's lifetime."

This isn't true, yea maybe they won't pull or have the need for a social security check, but their businesses and investments rely on public infrastructure, education, and the federal military protecting their international assets and trade rights MUCH more then the average joe. This is compounded by the fact that our corrupt system of government you so aptly pointed out, has allowed the policy making to overwhelming favor the established crony capitalists.

"Instead of focusing on how much more money we can appropriate from the wealthy, we should first be making politicians and governments accountable for the money we are paying into the system now. Without this accountability, we will continue to run out of money."

You are totally right, we should be figuring out how to be less wasteful -- and there is also plenty of legislation that creates unnecessary waste and bureaucracy. I think this is beyond a discussion about taxes though, and more about restructuring our government in a bipartisan effort -- which starts with who we elect. I think you can separate the two arguments. But yea, totally agree. One thing to keep in mind though, all large human organizations become less efficient and wasteful -- so this is not just a government problem. See HP.

Lastly, I don't think that the NBA analogy really works here. Just because someone is born with athletic ability doesn't automatically make them draft ready. They spend 10-15 years honing their skills, spending time with world class coaches, and working hard to get to the NBA. Someone born into obscene wealth usually comes with years of investment management and financial teams built around the family to maintain that wealth -- with a high potential for the child to be very disconnected from reality and never have that same urge to work that the NBA player had. See the affluenza case for example. I am not suggesting we should punish someones children by any means for your own success, but there is a difference between providing your kids a nice life and supporting modern day princes and kings.

Obviously this last bit is more of a generalization, but I hope it shows the fault in your NBA analogy. Otherwise I do agree with the sentiment that yes, there are natural vagina lotteries, but being smarter or more athletic is a net positive for a society -- whereas being born into inordinate amounts of wealth could actually end up being a negative over the long term when your ruling class is further removed and further concentrated from the average.

Re: How Paul Graham Gets It Wrong in “Economic Inequality”

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also come from a previously communist country and I disagree. The world isn't so black and white. Progressive taxation is not equivalent to a centrally planned economic system. I've had state owned utilities and privately owned utilities, and I absolutely prefer the one that is subsidized by taxes and answers to voters. There's a huge difference between that and having state-chosen academia in Moscow decide how muc…

The US already has the one of the highest corporate tax rate in the world and the wealthy pay the majority of taxes. There is no inequality here. We shouldn't de-incentivize prosperity. We need to create more tax payers, not less (or the whole system will collapse). Larger safety-nets will not create this incentive. If it did, we would see many more startup and technology companies in nordic countries. Instead, we se…

> Stockholm is the second most prolific tech hub in the world on a per capita basis, behind Silicon Valley.

> The Nordic region represents 2pc of global GDP but has accounted for almost 10pc of the world’s billion-dollar exits over the last decade, with more than half of these coming from Sweden,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnol...

Re: How Paul Graham Gets It Wrong in “Economic Inequality”

#185
post #30

Coming from a former communist country, I don't understand why smart, capable people want to give away their money to a corrupt, incompetent state to manage it for them. The US is fundamentally different than Nordic countries, where socialism appears to be working: * The Nordic countries are tiny compared to the US. * They are highly educated. * Their society is homogenous. It seems like everybody is assuming that th…

I agree, thinking the politicians can handle anything is naive. Politicians seldom make the situation better, mostly they make it worse while enriching themselves. Socialism don't work in the Nordic countries either. In Denmark where I am from we were in the top 5 richest countries only 60 years ago, before we introduced the Welfare State. Back then we actually had lower taxes than in the US. Since then we have been…

I'm also from Denmark, and I find it hilarious that you think it's a problem that people prioritise free time. Do you think that all a society should aspire towards is to have people working as hard as they possibly can? To what end? So that a few people can get so rich that they (and their heirs) don't have to work hard while the rest of us do? Isn't it a testament to the success of the nordic model that most people, not just the elite few, can afford to prioritise leisure?

Your statement about how 66% of the population is payed for by the private sector is not only not right, it's not even wrong. It assumes that the public sector does not create any wealth at all. But obviously it does. And all the money that is spent in the public sector, eventually ends up in the pockets of private citizens or companies in the private sector. The public sector is as much a boon to the private sector as it is a burden.

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