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Join the U.S. Digital Service

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Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#171

Post by staticvar »

chucksmash wrote: post #149
Roritharr wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but its arguably more important. Less risky, but as a good developer the opportunity cost might be high aswell.

I believe parent was balking at the appropriation of "tour of duty" to describe taking a government job for a couple of years. The phrase carries strong connotations for a certain subset of people and it would be pretty tone deaf of us as a community to repurpose it to mean "writing instructions for computers the government owns."

> The phrase carries strong connotations for a certain subset of people and it would be pretty tone deaf of us as a community to repurpose it to mean "writing instructions for computers the government owns."

It's definitely an appropriation but I'm not sure this appropriation means "writing instructions for computers the government owns." I think they are implying there is a kind of sacrifice taking place, perhaps putting your country before your own personal gain. Translated literally it might mean something like "writing instructions for computers the government owns for meager compensation when you could be making +$100k per year working in the wider tech industry." Some similarities here with the Peace Corp whom does use the language "tour of duty" to describe time served in the Peace Corp http://www.peacecorps.gov/media/forpress/news/453/

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#172

Post by debacle »

inmygarage wrote: post #8

I saw Mikey Dickerson (in the video) speak to a group of ~200 people last summer about the work that he and his team did on healthcare.gov. He was at Google for nearly 8 years and left to run the recovery team for healthcare.gov. Their team is the real deal -- they saved the site in just a few months and now over 6 million people have signed up. Read the Time Magazine story for the full account. He does not seem like…

The Internet is enabling a government of the people for the first time since our population exploded in the last century.

Things are bad right now, but they're getting better. As long as the Internet remains an open and free place, society as a whole will continue to progress and grow at a faster and faster pace.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#173

Post by javaun »

wpietri wrote: post #6

I have met some of the 18F folks here in San Francisco, and I have gradually become convinced that there is a lot of substance to this effort. People, apparently including people at the highest levels, recognize that information technology has made enormous leaps in the private sector, and they are serious about helping government catch up. One of the most interesting bits to me was something said by Todd Park, a for…

I spent 7 years in Washington and can attest the change has been incredible. Civic-minded hackers, non-profits, and startups went from being outsiders to permeating agencies. Much was organic, and some was top-down mandated. Obama saw what happened in 2 elections and these new agencies are peppered with the people that used agile tech to great advantage on the campaign. Agencies like HHS and FCC were pioneers in open data -- not just for government, but for anyone. Look at cfpb.gov - an example of what an agency can look like when it starts from scratch. 18F and USDS are now tasked with bringing that innovation to the rest of government. If you can get to DC, consider attending the Sunlight Foundation's transparencycamp.org this May. It's the biggest event of it's kind, bringing 600 folks from across the globe.

EDIT: changed this sentence: "Much was organic and some top-down mandated" to reflect what I think was mostly due to popular upswell, though there were key executive decisions. The O'Reilly network has a lot of influential folks in DC too.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#174

Post by cwyers »

gyardley wrote: post #27

Let's say it's January 2017 and President Bush or Rubio or Paul or Walker is being inaugurated. Does the 'U.S. Digital Service' actually keep getting funded? If it does, do the staff actually want to stay? Will any of them be willing to work on government objectives that might not be in line with their personal politics? I'll believe this is actually what it claims it is when I see it and its staff persist through a…

We have had political administrations change many, many times in the U.S. There is not, that I know of, any mass layoff of an entire part of the civil service that coincides with any of them.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#175

Post by javaun »

eastbayjake wrote: post #83
hkmurakami wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but as we all know, continuity has inherent value that we would lose under say, a drastic replacement of staff.

I get what you're trying to say but literally every department, bureau, and agency replaces leadership and huge numbers of staff when the White House changes parties. We can argue about whether that's a good thing, but those organizations do seem to weather the change and continue on with their core functions. The State Department is vastly more complex than a tech company yet manages to keep itself in order when one…

The rank and file and core management stay the same, at at agency, it's the political appointees at the top that change for new administrations. This can be dramatic -- at the EPA, Republican leaders tend to dismantle the agency and cease enforcement, while Democrats do the opposite. I'm not sure USDS or 18F are politicized yet, they're making government more efficient. Then again if you hate government and want to dismantle it, getting rid of the all-stars would be a good play.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#176

Post by joelanman »

thissideup wrote: post #170
joelanman wrote: post #105

I work for the UK Government Digital Service - my views don't necessarily represent my employer. There are lots of comments here around the idea of whether you would work for a government if you disagreed with their political views. What I love about working on GDS projects is the potential to improve so many people's lives. People often don't have a choice when it comes to interacting with government - it's often a…

Yeah but if you disagree with something the government is doing, why would it be any better if you're making it easier? This is exactly what scientists who commit war-crimes would say. I am not accusing you of anything like that but that's the logical extreme.

That's why I said "aspects of". If I fully disagreed with a project and thought it was evil, I wouldn't work on it.

However, that's not normally the case. There may be aspects I disagree with, and if you get to do research, you can often show problems and affect the direction of the project. But after all, I could be wrong. I've done enough research to know that :)

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#177

Post by jarsin »

domoarevil wrote: post #110
mattste wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I have the chance to work with talented industry veterans, I'd absolutely love to do a tour of duty after I graduate.

This not a jaunt to Korea or Vietnam, holy moly.

Ill take the Viet Cong over a government code base any day :)

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#178

Post by Tactic »

sneak wrote: post #141

Remember, y'all: this is the government that brought you PRISM and XKEYSCORE and TAO. This is the government with the department who tortured Manning and is pressuring the UK to illegally interfere with Assange's right to asylum. Think twice before you provide material aid to the enemy.

The US government is a very large entity. Be careful in personifying it and condemning the whole based on some high profile actions of a portion of it. Many portions of it do good work that are invaluable to our society. A broader view is required.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#179

Post by bmj »

Someone1234 wrote: post #160
rfrey wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for change from within the system is definitely a legitimate position to take. That said, the objections I'm reading here are centered around supporting a government that actively tortures political activists and captured enemies. I think the phrase "if you [disagree] with their political views" trivializes that position.

> That said, the objections I'm reading here are centered around supporting a government that actively tortures political activists and captured enemies. I think the phrase "if you [disagree] with their political views" trivializes that position. Unless you're designing some kind of torture software, I think you're massive reaching to make one apply to the other. Nothing about doing better e.g. tax software, road pla…

Agreed. Even if you think the tax code benefits the $interest_group_of_choice, reducing the number of automatically flagged audits, for example, due to better algorithms, is a win for everybody.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#180

Post by bmj »

joelanman wrote: post #105

I work for the UK Government Digital Service - my views don't necessarily represent my employer. There are lots of comments here around the idea of whether you would work for a government if you disagreed with their political views. What I love about working on GDS projects is the potential to improve so many people's lives. People often don't have a choice when it comes to interacting with government - it's often a…

Thanks for posting this.

Imagine what would happen to the country if, after Obama was elected, every single right-leaning person employed by the government up and left. Government services rely on continuity, particularly stuff like welfare and social security (in the US). Imagine if you had to completely retrain that workforce every four years.

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