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Join the U.S. Digital Service

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Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#151

Post by untog »

rfrey wrote: post #145
joelanman wrote: post #105

I work for the UK Government Digital Service - my views don't necessarily represent my employer. There are lots of comments here around the idea of whether you would work for a government if you disagreed with their political views. What I love about working on GDS projects is the potential to improve so many people's lives. People often don't have a choice when it comes to interacting with government - it's often a…

Working for change from within the system is definitely a legitimate position to take. That said, the objections I'm reading here are centered around supporting a government that actively tortures political activists and captured enemies. I think the phrase "if you [disagree] with their political views" trivializes that position.

I'm not a fan of bundling up "government" like that. After all, it is a huge, huge organisation, and the torturers occupy a space entirely different from those who help you file your tax return.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#152

Post by netman21 »

I am of two minds here. On the one hand making the onerous task of complying with government regulations, paying taxes, and receiving benefits is all good. It even has the potential of reducing the overal burden the government imposes on our everyday life. On the other hand, anything that reduces the frustration of dealing with the government puts off the time when there will be fewer government bodies, regulations, and inefficiency. I hope that the smart people employed by US Digital Service ask the question: "Do we really need this?" Before they set about fixing particular inefficiencies.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#153

Post by jcurbo »

ipsin wrote: post #40

Two things I wonder about: 1) Is an outfit like the U.S. Digital Service considering people who don't have undergraduate degrees, but have a consistent track record or are a part of established teams? 2) Is the salary roughly comparable with what's available in the private sector? I understand that the government might pay less in return for some of the perks of government work, but how close are they coming these da…

The salary schedule for civil servants is available on the Internet: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-...

Most engineering types I've met in the gov't have been in the 10-14 range, depending on seniority. 15's are usually dept heads or the like.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#154

Post by ipsin »

BrandonY wrote: post #70
ipsin wrote: post #40

Two things I wonder about: 1) Is an outfit like the U.S. Digital Service considering people who don't have undergraduate degrees, but have a consistent track record or are a part of established teams? 2) Is the salary roughly comparable with what's available in the private sector? I understand that the government might pay less in return for some of the perks of government work, but how close are they coming these da…

I have no expertise here, but here's my understanding: 1) Yes, especially if you've worked for some big name, non-government tech companies. 2) Absolutely not. The salary is MISERABLE compared to what you could get in the private sector. That's the real problem. The government desperately needs world class software engineers, but the private sector can effectively buy them all away. Who would try and fix the busted o…

That's what I was afraid of. The thing is, the government seems to have been happy enough in the past to throw hundreds of millions of dollars to contractors, who could then parcel it out to employees and bank the rest.

I'm all for cutting out the middleman in that case, but I think the government needs to determine the price point at which they actually get the talent they need.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#155

Post by RHSeeger »

14113 wrote: post #135
vpeters25 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had managers yell at me when at the sprint review meeting we realize we were going the wrong way and decide to scrap some of the work of the last few weeks... Imagine politicians with a stake in the project's failure hearing that: they will go full Benghazi on it.

Better a few weeks than a couple of years and millions of funding.

Not necessarily in the eyes of certain people, and it happens in the corporate world, too. If you're only in charge of the project for a period of time (no longer in that political role, promoted, whatever), then "it doesn't need to succeed, it just can't fail" is a term used widely.

You don't want to be seen having failures in your project (even small, agile failures that are for the good)... but you don't care if the project succeeds.

If you can plan out a waterfall project that won't complete until you're "out of office", then there is no negative consequences for you... even if you KNOW it will fail once you're gone, that's the next guy's problem.

Sad, but true.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#157

Post by pmorici »

sloanesturz wrote: post #77

I would love to see a program like ROTC -- the government pays for you to get a CS degree and then you work for the Digital Service to start your career. You end up being 26 with a great education and a solid work experience under your belt. Seems like a win-win!

That has already existed for at least the past decade or more. It's called the Cyber Corps. Granted it's focused on computer security and doesn't come with the ego boost that being crammed in a small room at the White House seems to give people here but it is a CS/engineering scholarship for service program.

https://www.sfs.opm.gov/

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#158

Post by nadams »

BrandonY wrote: post #70
ipsin wrote: post #40

Two things I wonder about: 1) Is an outfit like the U.S. Digital Service considering people who don't have undergraduate degrees, but have a consistent track record or are a part of established teams? 2) Is the salary roughly comparable with what's available in the private sector? I understand that the government might pay less in return for some of the perks of government work, but how close are they coming these da…

I have no expertise here, but here's my understanding: 1) Yes, especially if you've worked for some big name, non-government tech companies. 2) Absolutely not. The salary is MISERABLE compared to what you could get in the private sector. That's the real problem. The government desperately needs world class software engineers, but the private sector can effectively buy them all away. Who would try and fix the busted o…

> The salary is MISERABLE compared to what you could get in the private sector.

That all depends. Many comp sci students are brainwashed to think that if a salary isn't at least 100k then it's not worth their time.

The fact is that it depends on location and cost of living.

For example - if you get hired to work for Google in their HQ in CA then you are guaranteed to get at least 100k salary. However, 90% of that will go towards food/rent (you will most likely rent as houses cost up in the millions...) - which making $60k in a smaller suburb area (where housing is in the affordable $50-$200k range) would arguably be the same net income as if you were working at Google.

I will say that you will earn more in the private sector - but I wouldn't use miserable to describe government salaries (more like underpaid). When I worked for the man it was defiantly an interesting experience but it was a very relaxed environment/startupy feeling.

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#159

Post by efriese »

So what is this? I love the idea of contributing to something like this, but they don't make the process clear. Is this a job? Can I work part time on specific tasks? There are people willing to leave the private sector to do this work, but that's not always an option. They need to find a way to leverage people's spare cycles. They also don't mention anything about security. The skill gap in security is MUCH larger than development. They are missing an opportunity there...

Re: Join the U.S. Digital Service

#160

Post by Someone1234 »

rfrey wrote: post #145
joelanman wrote: post #105

I work for the UK Government Digital Service - my views don't necessarily represent my employer. There are lots of comments here around the idea of whether you would work for a government if you disagreed with their political views. What I love about working on GDS projects is the potential to improve so many people's lives. People often don't have a choice when it comes to interacting with government - it's often a…

Working for change from within the system is definitely a legitimate position to take. That said, the objections I'm reading here are centered around supporting a government that actively tortures political activists and captured enemies. I think the phrase "if you [disagree] with their political views" trivializes that position.

> That said, the objections I'm reading here are centered around supporting a government that actively tortures political activists and captured enemies. I think the phrase "if you [disagree] with their political views" trivializes that position.

Unless you're designing some kind of torture software, I think you're massive reaching to make one apply to the other.

Nothing about doing better e.g. tax software, road planning, or similar is going to help the US Government torture detainees.

Realistically there are millions of US Government connected jobs, it is just unrealistic for everyone to boycott them because another part of a massive government did something ethically and morally wrong.

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