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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#171

Post by SODaniel »

outside1234 wrote: post #143

I don't get it. Are there folks amongst us that really so socially inept that they think its ok to make a dick joke at a conference regardless of context? Its a professional conference and that is not professional behavior.

I personally find it more confounding that grown men or women are actually finding what they said privately (the fact that you can overhear a private conversation does not make it public, saying it at the podium would) offensive enough to think her reaction was anything but an overreaction.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#172

Post by djcapelis »

revelation wrote: post #141
djcapelis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. I think we need to stop doing this bullshit in general. I'd much rather have our community check each other and shame each other on Twitter than having employers step in and decide that thing X or thing Y is not okay for their employees to say in their personal capacity at a conference or on Twitter. As far as I've heard, Adr…

If I understood correctly, Adria is not another employee, but has the role of developer evangelist. In that role, your twitter account is very much an extension of your job.

> In that role, your twitter account is very much an extension of your job.

I'm not sure I agree with you, but I think this is an interesting point in the debate and wanted to acknowledge that even though I don't have a snappy response for you at the present time. Hopefully other people engage this point. It seems worth talking about.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#173

Post by jamesaguilar »

moistgorilla wrote: post #150
jamesaguilar wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with you on the harm point. Our legal system does too. Mental harms count. There are varieties of them that you are legally protected from. Work-context sexual offense is one of them. Whether pycon is a professional context really depends on whose dime and at whose behest you are attending it, no? I don't know the details of this case. In any event, it's probable that PyCon has a harassment policy that cou…

I wasn't arguing against the fact that mental harm exists. I was arguing that harm implies that somebody was injured and a sexual innuendo involving dongles and forks is hardly offensive enough to injure somebody just like looking at someone the wrong way shouldn't harm someone in most situations. In a situation were someone is being harmed by something that is in most situations harmless (because they suffered some…

I would definitely agree that a single instance of these jokes would not and should not constitute harassment. The joker should not have been fired. I said as much in my first post.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#174

Post by lclarkmichalek »

numbsafari wrote: post #137
djcapelis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. I think we need to stop doing this bullshit in general. I'd much rather have our community check each other and shame each other on Twitter than having employers step in and decide that thing X or thing Y is not okay for their employees to say in their personal capacity at a conference or on Twitter. As far as I've heard, Adr…

So, I'm gonna assume that he didn't pay his way to the conference since he was wearing a company badge with the word "sponsor" on it. If that's the case.. then he's not there in his personal capacity. He is there representing his company, on their dime. They do, in fact, have something to lose if he cannot conduct himself in a reasonably professional manner.

They taught me this in primary school; when you're in public wearing the school uniform, you are representing the school. As such, any misbehaviour (i.e. smoking in the nearby underpass) will be punished by the school.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#175

Post by revelation »

danilocampos wrote: post #22

Couple pieces to this. First – the fact that this guy's employer made a kneejerk reaction is no one's fault but the employer. Next – let's talk about this red herring of "sexism." Making a phallus joke might be sexist depending on context. Or it might not be. Sexism is not at issue here. The individual in question concedes that they did, in fact, make the joke. From PyCon's code of conduct: "All communication should…

Their code of conduct also states that you may not take pictures of people without their express consent. I don't know why people concentrate on the issue of "who said what", that is such an extremely slippery slope I wouldn't dare going into it as a conference organizer.

But taking pictures (and then spreading them to your followers) is a very, very clear no go.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#176

Post by px43 »

lazugod wrote: post #56
petercooper wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how long it'll be till we see the first "masked" conference, Italian style. Personal identities concealed! Could be kinda fun actually..

DefCon?

One nice thing about defcon is that people WILL get kicked out for taking pictures of others without permission.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#177

Post by tadfisher »

wpietri wrote: post #101
crag wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS. I'm getting sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their actions. Now I do agree with you somewhat. I doubt she saw this "joke" as an opportunity to screw someone over (at least I hope so. If she did, then all bets are off); but that doesn't excuse her wrong. Her actions caused this guy to be fired. She needs to own it. Apoligize, Offer amends and move on.

Note where you stop in the causal chain: with the woman. You could blame the millennia of sexism that set up the situation. You could blame the gender-imbalanced context: it's easy for humans to be insensitive to minority views. You could blame the guy's parents and teachers for not raising him right. You could blame the guy for saying something inappropriate. You could blame his friends for not reigning him in. You…

So we need to remain eternally vigilant of the thousands of years of sexism during our day-to-day dealings? We need to be constantly thinking of the women and minorities in the room before we say anything? How is this being gender-neutral?

Re: The PyCon Incident

#178

Post by paranoiacblack »

katbyte wrote: post #117
blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

as "a women in tech" (god i hate even saying it like that lol) i totally agree. i think what she did was absurd. It wasn't even a lewd or offensive joke. Maybe its my social group but something like that would even cause any of us (more women in tech) to even bat an eye. If it was bothersome in anyway it was they were so loud she was paying more attention to them and they private conversations and not the speaker. Sh…

But you really shouldn't have to make politically incorrect jokes and references to make yourself fit in because of your gender. People who feel like they can't be themselves around you because of your gender have other hangups that are unrelated to you. If they truly believe that they can't joke around women, that's a failing of social understanding.

It doesn't really matter if the joke was lewd or offensive or if your social group wouldn't have batted an eye. That's a non-sequitur. She thought it was personally offensive and did something to stop it. It might have been possible to deal with it without identifying them, but that's just a guess at the situation.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#179

Post by hythloday »

moistgorilla wrote: post #27
jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

Who got harmed by this joke being told? No one, thus it's harmless.

"The results of two experiments supported the hypothesis that, for sexist men, exposure to sexist humour can promote the behavioural release of prejudice against women."

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/34/2/159.abstract

Women are tangibly harmed by sexist jokes.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#180

Post by ChuckMcM »

Wow, this is probably the first thread I've read on HN where the phase "Ok, what the heck just happened?" seems apropos.

The cognitive dissonance of the actions and the outcomes and the timeline just boggles the mind.

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