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The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

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Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#171

Post by _pferreir_ »

dageshi wrote: post #19
seivan wrote: post #3

Expect this to happen all over Europe. In particular England. It has happened before and will happen again, until the fuckers in charge understand and learn. But no one would vote on the guy calling for budget cuts. Everyone likes the guy with the hand outs.

"England" isn't in the euro, it has a central bank that can and will print money if required. If anything chances are the UK will be on the receiving end of any money transferred out of Greece, Portugal, Spain e.t.c. because it's within the EU (and therefore other EU citizens can easily open bank accounts) but not inside the eurozone (the UK has not funded any of the EU bailouts except via contributions to the IMF)

i.e. "has one's cake and eats it"

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#172

Post by _pferreir_ »

dageshi wrote: post #19
seivan wrote: post #3

Expect this to happen all over Europe. In particular England. It has happened before and will happen again, until the fuckers in charge understand and learn. But no one would vote on the guy calling for budget cuts. Everyone likes the guy with the hand outs.

"England" isn't in the euro, it has a central bank that can and will print money if required. If anything chances are the UK will be on the receiving end of any money transferred out of Greece, Portugal, Spain e.t.c. because it's within the EU (and therefore other EU citizens can easily open bank accounts) but not inside the eurozone (the UK has not funded any of the EU bailouts except via contributions to the IMF)

i.e. "has one's cake and eats it"

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#173

Post by gasull »

icebraining wrote: post #126
lrei wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Losing value and losing a part is the same thing. Say you have 100 dollars. And with 100 dollars you can buy 100 beans: * The dollar loses 10% value. Now you can only buy 90 beans. * You lose 10% of your 100 dollars. Now you only have 90 dollars. You can only buy 90 beans. Compare that with: * Cyprus banks go bankrupt, the euro loses 10% value - never mind that people actually lose 100% of their money. * Cyprus savin…

The Euro losing 10% of value in relation to what? USD? Yen? And even if the dollar loses 10% of the value vs every other currency, it's not true that you can only buy 90 beans, because you're not the only one with dollars: there are farmers who sell in dollars, and buy their stuff in dollars, and so will probably keep their prices. When everyone you trade with uses the same currency as you, there's no value to be los…

This is not true. Currency depreciation leads to price inflation. That's why your dollars (or euros) buy less things year over year.

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#174

Post by _pferreir_ »

kansface wrote: post #134
ryguytilidie wrote: post #95

I don't understand how someone decided the Eurozone was a good idea. It really is probably the biggest economic disaster in modern history.

Wedding essentially third world countries with Germany's isn't healthy, but at least it stops wars.

I'm curious as to which of the countries currently in financial trouble can be considered "third world".

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#175

Post by omgyeah »

vacri wrote: post #151
omgyeah wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... There are 5,000-euros suited thugs sitting in their offices relieving people of fiscal property. Which is exactly the same as jackbooted thugs going into people's homes and relieving them of physical property. And it's morally wrong. Like putting tags on people to make fun of them.

Tags like 'libertarian'? Or tags like 'thugs'?

You got me there.

I mean hard working bankers that deserve their 50,000% annual bonuses for destroying people's lives.

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#176

Post by tatsuke95 »

omgyeah wrote: post #142
moe wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a second. So I lend you a thousand dollars, for a nice interest rate. Then you go bankrupt or just disappear. And in this dire situation I should not be allowed to collect $1 from a thousand random citizens to compensate my loss? What an absurd concept.

Unlike people, countries don't disappear. They have many (natural) resources standing still on the earth. Which can be used to pay back loan. But greed is good. I can have both the other country's natural resources and $1,000 from my citizens. Win-win for me. Lose-lose for everybody else.

>"They have many (natural) resources standing still on the earth. Which can be used to pay back loan."

Like the German war reparations after WWI? That worked out well for everyone.

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#177

Post by gasull »

scotty79 wrote: post #117

That's basically end of banking on Cyprus. Who will keep money at the place that arbitrarily decides to steal 6.75% of it (or 9.9% if you are rich)? Also if I lived in Portugal or Spain I'd be on my way to the bank right now. Well actually I'd just transfer almost all of my money to mtgox (or some european market) and buy bitcoins.

I think for people living in Europe it makes more sense to use Bitcoin Central, since they accept SEPA transfers in euros without needing to convert them to dollars before buying bitcoins:

https://bitcoin-central.net/

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin-Central#EUR

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#178

Post by tatsuke95 »

znowi wrote: post #116
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #98

When a sovereign fails, its banks fail, and private sector losses are virtually assured. The question is who bears the burden. Roughly half the deposits in Cypriot banks, with assets five times its GDP, are of Russian, Greek, or British origin [1]. They were attracted by high deposit rates (roughly double EMU average) and a system tolerant of likely tax evaders. >" This whole thing is entirely unfair for the people l…

No doubt you know your trade. The problem is that it's more of a witchcraft and the way you smoothly lay things out here in the complex intricacies of the financial sector evades people from the simple fact that the banks fucked up. And the question of who bears the burden is only a question for the banking industry, in how to leverage public funds to cover their losses.

>"the simple fact that the banks fucked up"

The banks are run by citizens and funded by citizens. So when the banks "fuck up", it's going to end up on those same citizens. There is no way to isolate losses to some "bank" entity.

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#179

Post by omgyeah »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #150
omgyeah wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could sell some of your parents organs and buy a new car? What is a better option? Maybe don't buy a new car? Let them rot. They're too far away. I can't smell the foul scent. I don't care.

I'm sure the Cypriots don't want to rot, so why not take the EU bail out? Yes, they lose 6-10%, but that is much better than 100%. And the Russia mafia won't be that angry.

1: Because it's not a solution.

2: It's a temporary measure that will only lead to a worse temporary measure.

3: GOTO 2;

Re: The madness of the bailout in Cyprus

#180

Post by gasull »

acd wrote: post #72

The rich are getting richer for each year that goes, Middleclass are therefore relatively getting poorer compared to the rich. Yet we bail out the banks that supports the debt money of the super-rich. Thus we save the rich and put austerity packages on the poor. There is not money for the principal in the current economic system. Almost all money is debt. Less than 5% of banks assets are cash, the rest is debt. The c…

Agreed. Except that new economic system already exists. It's called Bitcoin.

Also, debt money isn't necessarily bad if it isn't controlled by politicians and bank oligarchs. Ripple is a good example of this.

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