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Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#171

Post by disbelief »

catshirt wrote: post #140
icelancer wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it abuse if you use them for performance reasons and moderate it properly? Just because the distributors of the drug say it is abuse doesn't mean it is - they do not get to decide these things.

this is to my point. who then is the arbiter of abuse? OP? x pills is fine, y pills is fine, z pills makes you a "complete moron".

Well, when your life starts to fall apart at the seams and you start exhibiting any one of the behaviours mentioned in OP's article, that's a pretty good indicator you've reached "complete moron" status.

However I think you're over simplifying the question. Not everyone has the same response to drugs/substances. Some people can do what systematical does without any long term side effects because they simply have the willpower, self awareness, and personality type that allows them to avoid becoming dependent.

Conversely other people would become dependent and turn into complete wrecks almost over night. Similar things can be said for alcohol, or any other "altered stated". It doesn't necessarily mean that the substance itself is the problem, or that all use is "abuse".

It really comes down to knowing yourself, knowing your own limits, and being as well informed as you can be.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#172

Post by smoyer »

Volpe wrote: post #109
smoyer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point ... I drink coffee every day too, but I'm no longer addicted (I mean that in the literal sense) like I was when I drank three to four pots.

I think you mean your addiction is no longer outside the social norm. Caffeine is addictive, regardless what you rationalise or not. The only way to not be addicted is to severely limit supply...

Actually, I mean that how my body functions is unaffected by my caffeine intake. If I don't have coffee on any given day, I continue to be functional ... in the "old days", I'd have had a killer headache within 30-45 minutes of waking up if I didn't down a large cup.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#173

Post by chimpinee »

kristofferR wrote: post #166
chimpinee wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>She had a substance abuse problem This is true. However, a lot of people will take away the message 'stay off adderall' whereas (1) some people apparently benefit from it, (2) some people whom doctors wouldn't prescribe to may benefit (e.g. the mathematician Paul Erdös took ritalin, a similar drug), (3) all people who abuse drugs do so because of personality problems -- thus if she hadn't taken adderall then she may…

She isn't saying that people should stay off adderall, she is saying that people should be careful and not think of it as something totally harmless and risk-free. Obviously adderall can be very useful both on- and off-label, but that doesn't mean it can't be harmful too. And saying that "all people who abuse drugs do so because of personality problems" is obviously quite ignorant. Genetical factors are often importa…

>She isn't saying that people should stay off adderall

Indeed.

>And saying that "all people who abuse drugs do so because of personality problems" is obviously quite ignorant

Nah. The truth in this whole drugs business is far from obvious. Check out Gabor Maté on youtube, he has some interesting things to say. Apart from that, perhaps when we have a theory of consciousness we will be able to re-frame mental disorders as disorders of consciousness.

Meanwhile 'addiction' and 'abuse' are problems -- are you saying they're not to do with personality? Some people do talk about genes in this context, but they have no explanatory theory connecting genes to specific mental traits, so I think they're mistaken. And, if they did, those genes would then be part of the personality

>You seem to think that being addicted is a simple choice

No, I think addictions are a form of unconscious behaviour, so not a matter of choice, although the cure might entail making a choice

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#174

Post by JohnBooty »

lsc wrote: post #162
JohnBooty wrote: post #82

The comments to this article mainly focus on the medical benefits and side effects of Adderall. I don't want a larger truth to get lost here... While I've been prescribed Adderall for part of my adult life, and feel Adderall has benefited me, I'd like to say that there's far more to successful ADHD treatment than medication: - Proper environment - Getting enough exercise - Getting enough sleep - Support and understan…

what I find interesting is that when I use the ADD medication, I'm far more likely to go to bed and get up at a semi-reasonable time. Unsurprisingly, (as it's a stimulant) it also makes it far more likely that I'll work out. But yeah. Frictionless organization. and don't hesitate to hire things out. I mean, think about what you want to do yourself and what you want to hire out, but don't think about it from a cultura…

  So yeah; I mean, if I was in a McDonalds kind of 
  situation, where peak performance didn't matter... 
  where I just had to perform at a minimal level, but 
  show up on time and always meet that minimal standard? 
  I would really, really struggle, no matter what 
  tricks or drugs I used.
Haha. In high school and college, I struggled at some hilariously menial jobs before I became a professional developer!

At one job, all I had to do was make toast on Sundays at a busy diner... the owner and I still laugh about the fact that I still sometimes managed to screw it up!

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#175

Post by dworrad »

espeed wrote: post #127
JohnBooty wrote: post #82

The comments to this article mainly focus on the medical benefits and side effects of Adderall. I don't want a larger truth to get lost here... While I've been prescribed Adderall for part of my adult life, and feel Adderall has benefited me, I'd like to say that there's far more to successful ADHD treatment than medication: - Proper environment - Getting enough exercise - Getting enough sleep - Support and understan…

You're absolutely right. John Ratey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ratey ), the professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who wrote Driven to Distration , recently published a book called Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain ( http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-B... ). Spark details how high-intensity cardio (like sprints or interval training) put your br…

I have for many years realised the benefits of high intensity (hit) exercise and it does work... but like anything it has it's downside... illness and injury can become very common if diet and rest aren't factored in. I find the problem is that most people exercise in what I call the grey zone - not easy and long enough... or not hard and short enough. Most recreational runners fall into this category.... if you can balance easy and long (<140bpm) workouts with short and hard (20 minutes) you will gain many benefits. But you can't build an aerobic base without long easy workouts imho.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#176

Post by thirdtruck »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #104

The amount of comments here claiming being diagnosed with ADD and taking pills for it made my head explode. ADD can't be a real condition if suddenly everybody is diagnosed with it, can it? Because if it is, we have an epidemy going on.

They also have far more to say about the issue than people without ADD.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#177

Post by X-Istence »

rdl wrote: post #147
X-Istence wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have taken Adderall now for about a year, and while I have reduced appetite it is not all that bad, I still eat the necessary amount of food, in reality it has been helping me lose weight healthily since I stopped eating while bored ... since I am bored less and can focus on the task at hand. I take 10 mg twice daily. I can go on and off Adderall with minor issues. The only issue when I go off Adderall for a day or…

Is that 10mg IR or 10mg ER? 10mg b.i.d. isn't a very high dose, which is probably why side effects are relatively low. It certainly sounds like it's helping you.

10 mg instant release.

The extended release (XR) formula would help me for the first half of the day, but after about noon all effects would have worn off. Asked my doctor to change from 20 mg XR to 10 mg twice daily.

And no, it is not a whole lot, and I am trying to keep it that way. As mentioned before, if I could do without it, I would.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#178

Post by X-Istence »

sneak wrote: post #24
danso wrote: post #5

How do people who've taken it for most of their adult life cope with adderall usage? I mean, how necessary of a drug does it seem to be -- or, to put it another way, how bad are the withdrawals, compared to antipsychotics, painkillers, etc? And if you've lived with adderall usage, do you chronically feel like you have a reduced appetite and all the other kinds of symptoms? I've heard that happens for people who take…

Someone very close to me had been on it since she was 12. She's 23 now and stopped last fall. Due to her tolerance, she'd been on very high doses for basically a decade. After stopping, sleeping for 16-18 hours a day was the norm for about a month- but just getting to that point, first she had to cope with a weeklong psychotic break. It causes some serious dopamine desensitization after extended use. Depression is co…

What was her dosage?

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#179

Post by Wintamute »

AnIrishDuck wrote: post #110
nikatwork wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her You are asserting that the law firm's long working hours were caused by her med use. Do you think you might have that backwards? > the author's self-absorption, the victimization tone She had a substance abuse problem. She's warning others that it's a slippery slope. Show some compassion.

> You are asserting that the law firm's long working hours were caused by her med use. Do you think you might have that backwards? It probably becomes a vicious cycle / race to the bottom. You take more drugs to work longer hours and compete with your colleagues, who start taking more drugs so they can work more hours to have the edge over you...

Are you asserting that the main reason people work long hours is because of performance enhancing drugs? And if you're not asserting that, what are you asserting?

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#180

Post by jasonlotito »

nawitus wrote: post #83
clicks wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an individual who was diagnosed with ADHD, but whose parents refused to acquire medicine based on superstitious 'but isn't adderall just basically cocaine?' grounds, I assure you I've got an axe about 3,000x bigger than yours to grind at individuals like those who wrote this NYTimes article. I'm sorry to hear that you were diagnosed by an incompetent psychiatric physician, but I would hope you don't use your misfo…

>anti-science Is debate allowed about in science anymore? It seems that everyone who disagrees with the status quo is branded as anti-science, therefore destroying all chances for a constructive discussion.

In the context of the comment, anti-science was correctly used. There was nothing scientific about it.

> Is debate allowed about in science anymore?

Of the type we are discussing? It's never been allowed. It's always been discouraged. You can see similar types of debates when people talk about teaching the controversy.

In fact, science is not about debate. It's about presenting facts in support of an argument. Merely arguing is pointless.

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