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Bullying has to stop, now.

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Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#171

Post by tomjen3 »

coldtea wrote: post #119
jerf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Your argument often ends up implicitly turning into "Therefore, we shouldn't punish the bully, it's not his fault. Therefore, I guess, well, we'll do nothing." You've cognitively narrowed your focus to just the bully and forgotten everyone else who is getting bullied. Tha…

> OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Oh, some kids get bullied at at school. Oh, the humanity. Really, first world problems of the highest caliber...

If you had a brain, you would understand what you actually wrote.

But since you don't the best we can do is downvote you.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#172

Post by lobo_tuerto »

japhyr wrote: post #146

I have been teaching for about 15 years, with a mix of high school and middle school experience. I also worked for 6 months in an elementary school supporting students behaviorally. I have seen bullying my entire professional life. I have participated in countless professional development experiences over the years, and I have grown a healthy skepticism towards commercial offerings that aim to solve school-based prob…

Excellent example about how to handle a bullying situation. Now I know how can I help in a positive way if I detect something similar going on.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#173

Post by InclinedPlane »

rplnt wrote: post #133
InclinedPlane wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stop being raped." "Stop getting mugged." "Stop being stabbed." "Stop being murdered."

To be fair, he didn't say stop being bullied. He said we, adults, should get over it - kids are and will be bullied. So while I don't agree with him completely, your comments are way off topic.

Oh, riiight. Ok, then. "Stop caring about people getting raped." "Stop caring about people getting murdered." People do bad things. Get over it.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#174

Post by Nursie »

stared wrote: post #165
Nursie wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without 'forcing' kids to school, how do we find the ones that supposedly need it? And how do we get kids who could use it, but from backgrounds that wouldn't bother to educate them at all, into the system? Mandatory education is a good thing.

Forcing all kids to go to school and forcing all kids to learn are two different things. As you know, daycare (and, say, crime and accident prevention), training, and cultural/national upbringing are different things, and they work differently, often with contradicting goals and methodologies. Currently we tend to treat "education" as a one thing, but in isn't. I am all for all kids going to school (unless one can pr…

I'm not saying there's not vast room for improvement here!

I just don't think that abolishing mandatory education/training/socialisation/what-the-hell-ever is a good idea, and it seems you don't either :)

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#175

Post by Tichy »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #25
Tichy wrote: post #9

The thing that strikes me about school is that people are pretty much locked into it. Once you get out of that system, if you are surrounded by nasty people, you can usually just leave. That's what I do, anyway. With school, not so much luck - it's possible to transfer to another school, but it's usually not very easy to pull of. Of course the feeling of not being liked sticks, too, but perhaps it wouldn't even manif…

And yet, being 'locked in', as you describe it, teaches a valuable life lesson: sometimes you have to deal with what you have, instead of run away or hide. As described above, sometimes you need to punch a factor that makes your situation undesireable and triggers your "flight" response to greatly increase your situation. As in, this is your life, deal with it. You can't run away, so fix your problems instead of runn…

I'm glad that punching back worked out for some kids, but I would be wary of inferring a general rule from that. Might be the kids for whom punching back didn't work out just didn't tell their story.

What could also happen is that the bully gathers his friends and strikes back in a big way. Or maybe he has a knife. Or whatever - I don't know, probably I would try to punch back, too. But I don't think it is essential for people to go through such an ordeal.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#176

Post by Tichy »

mtoddh wrote: post #102
ErrantX wrote: post #15

I don't think anything has touched me this deeply for years. I even got a little teary (which is rare for me). A lot of this I can relate to. School was hell for me, and I still struggle to forgive the adults around me during that period who, despite knowing what I (and others) faced, failed us utterly. Of course, school is rough and tumble - but when things went too far they sympathised, and in some rare cases talke…

One thing I am never, ever, going to tell my kids is the stupid "sticks and stones" rhyme. That's just to make you feel better, not them. I agree. Part of the problem is that adults tend to hold kids to a much different standard than they hold themselves. For instance, as an adult, if I'm working in a company where verbal bullying and harassment is a problem, and HR does nothing to address the situation, then I'll ju…

My son is 2,5 now, too. I definitely plan to let him get some martial arts training before starting school. Not sure what age would be good, but I suppose 4 at the latest (maybe sooner).

It seems like a good basic skill to have in life...

And also, running - in most fight situations, running is probably the best option.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#177

Post by jerf »

king_jester wrote: post #123
jerf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Your argument often ends up implicitly turning into "Therefore, we shouldn't punish the bully, it's not his fault. Therefore, I guess, well, we'll do nothing." You've cognitively narrowed your focus to just the bully and forgotten everyone else who is getting bullied. Tha…

> OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Eliminate the social problems that make said person's life hard in the first place. Reduce poverty, end racist laws and law enforcement, and make it possible for individuals and communities to have self determination rather than being undermined by private and public in…

That's completely useless. Bullying is here now. It's not something that bad conditions are going to produce in 20 years if we don't do something. Your proposed solution is to let bullies just bully while we hopefully, someday, address some of the reasons why they exist, and I suppose, when that doesn't work, we continue to let the bullies bully then too. That's punting on the problem in a way even worse than the one I strawmanned in my post.

What are you going to propose now?

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#178

Post by coldtea »

baggachipz wrote: post #134
coldtea wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Oh, some kids get bullied at at school. Oh, the humanity. Really, first world problems of the highest caliber...

Congratulations, you're part of the problem.

I'm not even part of the country.

We don't have cliques, proms, or BS high school drama where I come from. We just get along. No mass shootings either.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#179

Post by coldtea »

tomjen3 wrote: post #171
coldtea wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Oh, some kids get bullied at at school. Oh, the humanity. Really, first world problems of the highest caliber...

If you had a brain, you would understand what you actually wrote. But since you don't the best we can do is downvote you.

And if you had one, you would understood what I wrote.

This bulling thing is cultural. It doesn't happen everywhere, the same way mass shooting doesn't happen everywhere (and no, it's not because of no guns available).

And part of it is giving it too much attention. A lot of times it's not even bulling is merely normal behaviour in any team of people.

But since kids are taught that everybody is supposedly a "unique snowflake" and they must be greeted with roses and "ohhhs", they are devastated if they are not the most popular in school or are called a nickname or don't get the girls.

Meanwhile, in the real world, kids are struggling with extreme poverty, war, lack of water and food, etc. Not nicknames and not being invited to the prom.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#180

Post by mikegreenberg »

japhyr wrote: post #146

I have been teaching for about 15 years, with a mix of high school and middle school experience. I also worked for 6 months in an elementary school supporting students behaviorally. I have seen bullying my entire professional life. I have participated in countless professional development experiences over the years, and I have grown a healthy skepticism towards commercial offerings that aim to solve school-based prob…

This doesn't begin in the classroom. This starts at the home. And the same tools can be used on your own kids. Thanks for sharing.
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