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The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

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Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#171

Post by kropotkin »

snowwrestler wrote: post #79
jlgreco wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, yes, isn't so unreasonable the way those "flunkies" expect to be treated like worthwhile human beings? It is unreasonable for them to use their power to coerce the sort of treatment from people that they mistakenly believe they are entitled to. This is the case whether you consider them flunkies or community heroes.

Why is it mistaken to expect to be treated nicely? When did it become ok to be an asshole to fellow citizens? When I go to the convenience store to buy a donut, I am nice to the clerk behind the counter. When I go through customs, I am nice to the agent behind the counter. How are those mistakes?

Law enforcement agents are not fellow citizens. They are tools used by the State to engage in class warfare.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#172

Post by makomk »

ScottBurson wrote: post #156
enraged_camel wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, because you're absolutely right. In fact, the parent's anecdote is just that: an anecdote. The reality of the matter however is that you should never, ever admit wrong-doing under any circumstances. Use the minimum amount of words for basic communication with the cop, be polite, and then deal with whatever ticket is written (either pay it or contest it in court).

I once had a CHP officer tell me in so many words that if I hadn't admitted to speeding, he would have written me a ticket. Stonewalling isn't necessarily the best strategy, particularly if you both know you were in violation.

This is quite likely to depend on the colour of your skin...

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#174

Post by gadders »

sivers wrote: post #11

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia. 20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest. So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested. He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home. When he told the border guy the f…

It's like the US Customs form when they ask if you have ever visited a farm.

I sort of live on a farm (a collection of converted farm buildings, neighbours are corporate types or also hobby farm). What happens if I say yes?

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#175

Post by lmm »

gknoy wrote: post #163
tomjen3 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless they hold power over you, don't be nice to anybody who isn't nice to you. Iterated prisoners dilemma: if you aren't willing to defect, they will every time. If they hold power over you, smile until you stab them in the back.

If you aren't nice to someone that isn't nice to you first, and they do the same, who would ever be nice to one another?

Indeed; the successful prisoners' dilemma strategy is: you're nice to people to start with, but you turn nasty as soon as they do.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#176

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

gadders wrote: post #174
sivers wrote: post #11

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia. 20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest. So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested. He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home. When he told the border guy the f…

It's like the US Customs form when they ask if you have ever visited a farm. I sort of live on a farm (a collection of converted farm buildings, neighbours are corporate types or also hobby farm). What happens if I say yes?

They check your bags and feet for dried dirt, maybe have you stand in a tray with chemicals to destroy anything nasty on the bottom of your shoes, and check your country of origin against a list to see just how bad it could potentially be.

US Customs generally speaking aren't that bad. It is US immigration which are authoritarian nutjobs (and the TSA).

US Customs seem to be mostly interested in FACTS, immigration and the TSA seem to be mostly interested in if they like you as a person and if you treat them well.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#177

Post by gadders »

javajosh wrote: post #10

Ah, procedure. I'm particularly fond of situations like this where the procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. And they think you are yet another stupid person who doesn't understand the simple procedure, and they have nothing but contempt for those who don't understand the procedure as deeply as they do (especially which parts o…

It's not just a USA thing. You get this in the UK too.

In general though, in these situations you can have too choices - you can be right, or you can get the outcome you want.

Sometimes, happily, the two co-incide. Sometimes they don't, but you just have to put on your big boy pants, smile and suck it up.

As a slight aside, I think this is why Project Management is so valuable as training for life. My aim as a PM is to get my project delivered, and in the course of doing that I have to eat untold shite and do it with a smile on my face - primadonna developers, infrastructure functions that are borderline competent, lethargic business users, bureaucratic change boards etc etc.

In each circumstance I could try and force people to do what I want because they are idiots and I am of course completely correct (!) but that is just satisfying my ego. Instead I smile, ask about their kids, buy them a latte, and meanwhile my project succeeds.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#178

Post by gadders »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #176
gadders wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like the US Customs form when they ask if you have ever visited a farm. I sort of live on a farm (a collection of converted farm buildings, neighbours are corporate types or also hobby farm). What happens if I say yes?

They check your bags and feet for dried dirt, maybe have you stand in a tray with chemicals to destroy anything nasty on the bottom of your shoes, and check your country of origin against a list to see just how bad it could potentially be. US Customs generally speaking aren't that bad. It is US immigration which are authoritarian nutjobs (and the TSA). US Customs seem to be mostly interested in FACTS, immigration and…

I have to say I've never really had a bad experience with immigration (touch wood).

US Customs did however once confiscate a Fortnum and Mason's pork pie from me that I was taking to an English friend in Seattle.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#179

Post by nirvana »

He's afraid to sign a form that has an error on it, because he's a moral person.

Meanwhile, she's giddy to steal his very expensive boat, because she knows no matter how much she fucks it up, it's not going to come back on her. Plus nice new boat to screw around with.

If this situation doesn't show how profoundly corrupt government is, then I don't know what will.

And all the evil like this-- it is visited not just on rich people like him, but on poor people, who have their assets stolen by government agents just as giddy as she is.

Yet most articles about it don't even have the guts to call it what it is: Theft.

It's pathetic what "americans" have become. If he's pulled out a gun and shot her dead, right then and there, he would have been in his rights, she was in the act of grand theft, and it would have been self defense.

But of course mentioning that truth is shocking-- shocking!-- to the enslaved sheep that americans have become. (Hell the idea that he should be allowed to have a gun even, seems to be alarming to the impotent cowards that inhabit this country.)

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#180

Post by user24 »

smsm42 wrote: post #115
sivers wrote: post #11

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia. 20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest. So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested. He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home. When he told the border guy the f…

99.99% of all paperwork is done to cover somebody's ass in case something goes wrong. So if the guy is fine, nobody cares. If the guy makes trouble in Australia, border control's ass is covered - they asked about if he's a criminal, and he lied, so they could do nothing, so no blame on them. If there were no such question, eventually somebody would say "oh, if only border control would ask the right questions, we cou…

But the problem with all these things is that if the guy had lied on the form and then got in any kind of trouble, suddenly it becomes a huge issue that he lied on the form. It makes the bureaucrats life easier at the expense of the rights of the people involved.
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