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What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

konichivalue.com

171–180 of 201 posts

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#171
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would the solution to “our people aren’t having enough babies” be “we should import different people to have their babies here”? If you become poor enough and weak enough, you'll be "replaced" anyway. And not on your own terms.

It is not necessarily true, I think it is opposite. More poorer they get, less attractive that place becomes. Especially since Japan is not rich with natural resources, there is nothing really to steal there

They become less attractive to immigrants looking to engage in economic arbitrage.

They become more attractive to outside non-governmental powers looking to engage in economic arbitrage, which brings its own challenges.

They have less negotiating power with wealthier countries which impacts their sovereignty.

Poor countries also tend to have more internal conflict: https://gsdrc.org/professional-dev/poverty-and-conflict/

If we look at this empirically it seems clear that countries that trade ethnic sameness for economic prosperity end up more stable, peaceful and capable of directing their own affairs.

There could be some advantages to living in a country where strangers are also distant cousins, but they seem marginal.

There could even be emotional improvements for parts of the population who feel anxious about living near people who are genetically distant from themselves, but I've not seen great evidence of that. Particularly since ethnically cohesive but poor countries tend to fall into civil war regardless.

When you put it to the test and measure outcomes, there are tradeoffs that go far beyond giving up consumerism.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#172
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenophobes, not racists. There is no race called 'muslim'. That this thread attracts comments from those who have migration-related problems high on their agenda is not that strange since it is dealing with the problems of the (absence of) migration. This subject has been polarised - not in the least by people calling anyone who does not agree a 'racist' - so some of the comments are extreme as well, viz. the grandpa…

Lol. "xenophobes not racists" gives the same energy as "it isn't pedophilia, it's ephebophilia." Go jerk off to a Roman statue or something.

I thought this site catered to those a bit more discerning when it comes to discussing complex subjects but I seem to be mistaken. You do know the English language offers more than the few words you employ to have nuanced discussions?

Quite a fitting name you chose for yourself by the way.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#173
post #162
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way? I included England just because those particular periods are well-known. If you look at ALL of Europe's history, all up to recent times, there's been constant movements and migrations. People with different backgrounds, moving around, a lot of movement came as trade increased (and, as it has lately been found, there was much more trade even 3k years ago than anyone had previously anticipated). If you loo…

It really hasn't been constant movement and migrations. Once the Germanic and Slavic tribes settled, which wasn't fun for the natives before them and certainly not for the Romans as well, the migration more or less stopped statistically speaking (exceptions were the wars).

Right, and this latest influx certainly outpaces anything in many generations.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#174
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the deep psychological truths about human tribalism … that the races should keep to themselves? Yea, I’m going to have to disagree on this one. This was pretty handily disproven by the New World. Mixing, sharing, cohabiting… this creates culture and makes us stronger. Isolation, protectionism, and fear makes us weak.

Yep, there is a lot of evidence that says even nomadic tribes heavily intermingled with others because it was seen as a means of building resilience for all.

There is a lot of evidence that didn’t happen all at once and funded by social programs that effectively discourage integration.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those thing, yes that is a true statement but what do you do with that information? Would you be willing to make that call? Looks like the trolley problem in action.

Yes, because otherwise your economy and country collapse sooner or later. ie everyone dies. Why do think homogenous countries like Japan and South Korea are finally opening up the immigration floodgates? Because there’s currently no other choice. The other options (directly lowering the costs of child care, lowering work hours, robots, et al) still haven’t worked. Immigration buys you time. If you don’t want immigrat…

> If you don’t want immigration, but you still want to buy time then you have to end socialist entitlement programs for the elderly.

One big downside of any kind of social programs is that it conditions the population to rely solely on the state, thinking that their payments into the system will guarantee them safety. We tend to forget for a state to exist and to provide services, it needs people. Those people need to be born, raised and cultured in order to act as a community.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#176
post #58

I am really shocked at the tone of so many of the comments here. Did HN become a breeding ground for xenophobia at some point? Has it always been that and is it just way more mask off now?

Not everyone on HN is from SF, sometimes you also get reasonable opinions here.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#177
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US opened the border significantly during the Biden administration and it caused plenty of issues worth worrying about. I think that is a good example of opening the floodgates. But if you mean only in terms of affecting the population numbers then prob irrelevant.

> plenty of issues worth worrying about Such as? It looks like the country is doing much worse now that the border is closed.

[flagged]

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#178
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> crime rate hikes. No, not really. Broadly, immigration has no effect on crime-rates. In case-study after case-study, it’s shown immigration has little to no impact on crime-rates. This was even disproven after the height of the Syrian refuge crisis! But media likes sensationalist reporting, so public perception doesn’t match the statistics. > cultural demise. Meaningless, also created by the media. If you listen to…

Don’t pretend the people you are replying to care about actual facts. It’s all feelings and xenophobia (or worse) for them

For what it worth, your comment have just feeling and xenophobia. No facts whatsoever.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#179
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First generation immigrants to the EU do not have higher rates of crime vs. natively born citizens. (Go ahead, google it). This is a far right talking point, but it simply not true.* * https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/20635-eu-research-dispro...

When I studied in Germany, my house was broken into by a Bosnian migrant neighbour. The entire thing was captured on CCTV and reported to the Polizei, and they did exactly nothing, claiming the CCTV footage “does not prove anything”. All my money in my wallet was taken. Yeah since then I don’t trust the crime figures from Germany.

It's well known fact how Germany massages statistics to avoid any reference to "refugee" crime. Likely no other country in EU does so much shenanigans to hide the statistics

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#180
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not as simple as that. In my country giving birth is free. And you get economic support for every child. For most people it's still an economic burden to some extent, but for the majority it's not something which blocks them from having children. It's more that most families I know are content with having two children. It feels fine to them. But that's the families that do have children. 25% of men in my countr…

It is as simply as that. Economic support you mentioned is never enough to cover basic needs. Better than nothing, but still require to sacrifice a lot to have an extra kid. More kids means you need a bigger house, bigger car, extra furniture, a part time job for mother to manage kids.

I specifically mentioned families where the economy is not a burden, and they still don't want many children. Very few will want more than two. Please note that in my country at least, as long as the economy is good enough that there aren't any real problems living, then it doesn't matter if it costs more with more children. That is not the reason.
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