Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

gingerlime.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 258 posts

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#171

Post by verve_rat »

zuzululu wrote: post #92
gingerlime wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But Stripe didn't do anything to prevent the next merchant from falling into the same trap. They had all the evidence, and ignored it. That was the point I tried to make with my blog post. And yes, if it was too easy for merchants to block consumers, that won't be fair either. But surely there's a middle ground here. Stripe very explicitly told me that they don't do anything with such reports. It's simply ignore…

Stripe did the right thing here. They cannot be arbitrators of every little edge cases that comes up. That's not their role. Also I just wanna throw some praise at Stripe Support. They have an excellent team and go above and beyond to help.

They (Stripe) don't have to be a arbitrator of every edge case, just use the information they have that merchants want to give them and surface a risk signal back to merchants, then it can be up to the merchant what level of risk they are happy with for each customer.

It doesn't seem like an unreasonable ask frankly.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#172

Post by dahcryn »

omnimus wrote: post #167
vbezhenar wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Kazakhstan (I assume that's one country nobody heard of and would disable in their dashboard) and my bank doesn't even have any UI for chargebacks, nor I ever heard about anyone doing chargebacks. They even explicitly warn me sometimes that I assume all responsibility for that payment. I guess I can go through some process, it's VISA after all, but it's definitely not something I can do easily.

Yeah it's not a thing available to customers outside of western countries. Even in eastern europe countries a chargeback means making a lengthy complaint with the bank and if they decide to trust you then they make chargeback. So nobody really knows about it. When i started selling digital download content. Some people will buy, download and instantly charge back.

wait, people can just do that? How does that even work? Does Visa not supposedly protect both the seller and the buyer?

In Western Europe, a chargeback is not that unheard of, but it still requires you to make your case and follow a procedure and review. It's not that lengthy or difficult, but you cant just buy something online and then do a chargeback, unless you can clearly show that the download is not working and tried the helpdesk or you were mislead or something

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#173

Post by sam_lowry_ »

vbezhenar wrote: post #93
shash7 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

I live in Kazakhstan (I assume that's one country nobody heard of and would disable in their dashboard) and my bank doesn't even have any UI for chargebacks, nor I ever heard about anyone doing chargebacks. They even explicitly warn me sometimes that I assume all responsibility for that payment. I guess I can go through some process, it's VISA after all, but it's definitely not something I can do easily.

The OP of the thread meant US, obviously.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#174

Post by dahcryn »

shric wrote: post #169
t-3 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really helpful if I recognize the name when the gas station doesn't put the charges on my card until Friday when I bought stuff there on Tuesday. Then I'm just confused and have to analyze my whole purchase history.

In what backward place does this happen? It shows up the second I pay here (Australia)

it's common, they reserve an amount, and then update towards the final payment. These are not payments as such, and almost always take 48 hours to clear. Same at hotel rooms usually etc..

Many banks only show payments (so only after cleared) and not reserved funds. They will just show that you don't have the full credit available

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#175

Post by soco »

fweimer wrote: post #154
plantain wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 almost all from the US. The strongest signal is whether they use an eBank/app that has a one-click button to report transactions as fraudulent. The Apple card(?) seems especially prevalent.

U.S. chargeback rules are different. In other countries, you cannot repudiate credit card transactions that you authorized (and this applies to Mastercard/Visa, too). You need to do something else if you end up in a dispute with the merchant.

You open a ticket where you describe what happened and attach everything you have. It happened to me twice over the years, both with Visa, and I had them both approved. I'm not sure that in the age of AI agents they would care anymore, but I can dream right.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#176

Post by squigz »

zuzululu wrote: post #70
shash7 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

13 over 4 years is tiny sample compared to what I've seen on international scale. Great advice which is why data is what I'm relying on vs anecdotes.

With all due respect, both of these stories seem just as anecdotal as the other.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#177

Post by martin8412 »

cherioo wrote: post #135
cortesoft wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like companies should do a better job of naming their payment entity something that a customer can know when they see it.

It’s 2026, why can’t credit card and merchant figure out a way to transmit order summary URL as part of credit card transactions so I don’t need to match up transactions by amount??

A similar thing as what you propose already exists in the Nordics. You pay with your card as normal, and the receipt gets logged automatically in the app.

https://en.storebox.com/#/

Not universally supported unfortunately, but the major stores support it.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#178

Post by freakynit »

omnimus wrote: post #167
vbezhenar wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Kazakhstan (I assume that's one country nobody heard of and would disable in their dashboard) and my bank doesn't even have any UI for chargebacks, nor I ever heard about anyone doing chargebacks. They even explicitly warn me sometimes that I assume all responsibility for that payment. I guess I can go through some process, it's VISA after all, but it's definitely not something I can do easily.

Yeah it's not a thing available to customers outside of western countries. Even in eastern europe countries a chargeback means making a lengthy complaint with the bank and if they decide to trust you then they make chargeback. So nobody really knows about it. When i started selling digital download content. Some people will buy, download and instantly charge back.

I have been using online payments for over 15 years now. Over these years I probably have had accounts with over 10 different banks. Not a single time have I seen any setting related to chargebacks. In fact, I learnt of these just a few years back and I had to google it what do these even mean. Im from India btw.

And let me tell you, nowhere in my circle that I know of have ever raised one single chargeback in these 15 years. Not one.

This seems more of a developed-countries thing to me.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#179

Post by Cider9986 »

denkmoon wrote: post #161
Cider9986 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all the time. I usually pay a 1 cent fee and the transaction goes through in seconds. Not sure what you're talking about. I can send you some if you want to try it out, just drop an address(for a wallet I recommend cakewallet, but any popular open source wallet works). I'm talking about Monero specifically, but your reply makes no sense because there are cryptos that have 0 transaction fee and instant confirmait…

Yeah, monero has low transaction fees. And is a pain in the ass to get, even more so in significant quantity or at a good exchange rate. You pay a significant premium for the privacy. So just different types of fees. Monero is also far from instant in my experience. I too have plenty of purchasing experience with crypto and I wouldn’t advocate for it for any legal transaction.

> And is a pain in the ass to get, even more so in significant quantity or at a good exchange rate.

It's easy to get in the USA on Kraken from fiat for a very low fee or 0 with their pro plan.

> Monero is also far from instant in my experience.

It's up to the merchant to decide how many transactions before finishing their end of the deal. For small purchases it's low risk to do 0 confirmations and you can scale with price.

I've seen hundred dollar sales given out as soon as the transaction hits the mempool, before the first confirmation as well as 5 dollar sales that require waiting the whole 10 confirmations.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#180

Post by fweimer »

soco wrote: post #175
fweimer wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. chargeback rules are different. In other countries, you cannot repudiate credit card transactions that you authorized (and this applies to Mastercard/Visa, too). You need to do something else if you end up in a dispute with the merchant.

You open a ticket where you describe what happened and attach everything you have. It happened to me twice over the years, both with Visa, and I had them both approved. I'm not sure that in the age of AI agents they would care anymore, but I can dream right.

Over here, it's common that consumers don't have a direct relationship with the card company. I'm not sure if they would even be able to identify me.
Post reply on HN