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Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

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Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#171

Post by anon7000 »

saltcured wrote: post #127
caminanteblanco wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem a lot of non-Toyota manufacturers have run into is trying to have it both ways, like you said. For better or worse (I say better), the Prius really committed to hybrid as its own form. Plenty of hybrids really are an electric motor and a ICE tacked together, and with that system, you're going to hit twice (at least) the problems of either one. The thing I appreciate about the Toyota power-split de…

I think the biggest reduction is that it essentially replaces the conventional transmission with the hybrid unit. (Planetary gear set and motor-generators.) It drives like a CVT, but it is not a CVT in the sense people know as far as maintenance and reliability issues. It is just a "differential" and electric motor balancing out the ICE engine output to get a desired output drive effect.

This whole comment change is exactly what the video is about, how the Toyota hybrid system is actually a lot simpler than pure ICE, and mostly exists to make sure the ICE engine always runs at optimal efficiency

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#172

Post by mbgerring »

MegaDeKay wrote: post #101
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.

Current generation EV batteries solve this problem but you can’t buy them in the US :(

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#173

Post by dghlsakjg »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #117
MegaDeKay wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.

at -40C you need to start plugging a block warmer into the ICE when you park, something that an EV doesn’t need, although it can benefit from the same plug for the block warmer into Fairbanks parking lots.

Lithium batteries perform terribly at that temperature and cannot be charged at all without permanent damage. They basically need to have a block heater hooked up to the battery if you ever want to charge.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#175

Post by jdlshore »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #173
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at -40C you need to start plugging a block warmer into the ICE when you park, something that an EV doesn’t need, although it can benefit from the same plug for the block warmer into Fairbanks parking lots.

Lithium batteries perform terribly at that temperature and cannot be charged at all without permanent damage. They basically need to have a block heater hooked up to the battery if you ever want to charge.

I believe modern EVs have battery heating built in for exactly that reason.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#176

Post by kube-system »

IcyWindows wrote: post #164
kube-system wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota’s system is good but I personally prefer series hybrids which have power delivery more like an EV.

The video makes the argument that there is a lot of efficiency loss by converting to mechanical energy twice.

In general, that is correct. But there are also efficiency losses by running the engine at higher speeds off-throttle, which is a weakness of the Toyota design. Hybrids run in many different modes of operation under a wide variety of load and speed conditions, and there are strengths and weaknesses to each.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#177

Post by rdtsc »

wat10000 wrote: post #59
bluGill wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Called a series hybrid, and it has been done. However gears are more efficient than a generator -> motor, and charging a battery adds even more losses. Thus if the engine is running anyway you are better off just mechanically connecting it to the wheels. Trains don't do the above in large parts because the gears needed either wouldn't fit in the allowed space. (we may not be able to make them large enough either - th…

I wonder if fuel efficiency just doesn't matter enough for trains, since they're already so efficient at turning motive energy into motion. Other costs may dominate.

The main thing for them is torque. Need a whole buttload of that to get it going. The efficiency of the train then comes from steel wheels on steel rails really. Electric motors is for the torque.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#178

Post by __turbobrew__ »

stronglikedan wrote: post #102
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

Hybrids do make sense, but like everything else, for specific use cases. I do a lot of road tripping, so a hybrid is ideal. Charging is still way too slow to do multiple times per trip.

This is the reason why I got a hybrid. Many of my trips are on routes that don’t have good charging access and charging is just too slow for the length of trips.

Also, I bought a rav4 hybrid which is one of the most common cars on the road here and therefore mechanics have a lot of experience working on these vehicles.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#179

Post by ferongr »

Molitor5901 wrote: post #24

My experience with hybrids have been.... mostly positive, good mileage, Toyota's drive very well, but.. I would not buy one for one pedantic, silly reason: I hate the government mandated banshee howling sound. Many ICE vehicles are just as quiet as an EV without the fake noise, and while I am not discounting that quiet vehicles can pose a hazard to pedestrians, the howling is just.. utterly obnoxious.

A few drops of superglue into the speaker should work wonders. Probably very easy to DIY on your driveway in a few minutes.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#180

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #173
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at -40C you need to start plugging a block warmer into the ICE when you park, something that an EV doesn’t need, although it can benefit from the same plug for the block warmer into Fairbanks parking lots.

Lithium batteries perform terribly at that temperature and cannot be charged at all without permanent damage. They basically need to have a block heater hooked up to the battery if you ever want to charge.

It’s a solved problem and built into the car. You can do an AI lookup on Chinese EVs in Mohe/Harbin to get a summary of the tech they’ve developed.
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