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Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

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Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#171

Post by jrm4 »

F3nd0 wrote: post #161
lynndotpy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree, and I've been hammering this point as a GIMP user for two decades I think the "GIMP is actually a fine name" are increasingly a minority. Its name makes GIMP hostile to user adoption. Anyone who works in a primarily English-spekaing country knows what it's like to try to use GIMP at work, especially in K-12. It's not like it was an accident, either. GIMP is a backronym because they wanted to name it af…

> Anyone who works in a primarily English-spekaing country knows what it's like to try to use GIMP at work, especially in K-12. Over the many times this topic was brought up here, plenty of people from English-speaking countries have said that no, they’ve never had a problem with it. Yes, some people did have a problem with it. It's a valid point to bring up. But that does not mean their experience must have been sha…

But what it DOES mean is -- okay, is it really worth it to KEEP it, or might you be able to get adoption, fans, traction, possibly more developers etc. etc. if you were to change it?

What is the strong motivation behind keeping the name and was it valid?

(No. The answer is no, it was not. There's no real good reason to keep it compared to the potential upsides.)

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#172

Post by F3nd0 »

jrm4 wrote: post #168
F3nd0 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the impression that many of the people who know ‘gimp’ as a slur only do because some of the others feel a need to bring it up every single time GIMP is mentioned anywhere ever.

Respectfully, that's kind of a ridiculous "impression," easily refuted by many of us who have wanted to recommend GIMP to people. And again, it's called "reading the room." Even if you don't care about it being "offensive" or a "slur," names still matter. Like, if the word "poop" was in the name of some otherwise good software.

> Respectfully, that's kind of a ridiculous "impression," easily refuted by many of us who have wanted to recommend GIMP to people.

Is it though? Almost every time the topic is discussed, I see someone in the comments only then learning that the word is also known by some as a slur.

> Like, if the word "poop" was in the name of some otherwise good software.

Except that ‘poop’ is a common word with a single common meaning. ‘Gimp’ is not a common word and has several different meanings, one of them a slur, another kinky, and others probably innocuous (if even more uncommon). Many people (even among native English speakers, though let’s not forget about the rest of the world) only know the word as the name of the program. The two don’t really compare.

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#173

Post by F3nd0 »

jrm4 wrote: post #171
F3nd0 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone who works in a primarily English-spekaing country knows what it's like to try to use GIMP at work, especially in K-12. Over the many times this topic was brought up here, plenty of people from English-speaking countries have said that no, they’ve never had a problem with it. Yes, some people did have a problem with it. It's a valid point to bring up. But that does not mean their experience must have been sha…

But what it DOES mean is -- okay, is it really worth it to KEEP it, or might you be able to get adoption, fans, traction, possibly more developers etc. etc. if you were to change it? What is the strong motivation behind keeping the name and was it valid? (No. The answer is no, it was not. There's no real good reason to keep it compared to the potential upsides.)

I would have answered differently, but I guess you were asking yourself…?

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#174

Post by lynndotpy »

TeddyDD wrote: post #53
jrm4 wrote: post #40

I'll continue to say it; this software does not get taken seriously in a useful way to lots of people until it changes the silly name. And to summarize and perhaps avert other discussion; it's not so much about being "non-offensive" as it is simply about being professional.

Good thing then that the most popular version control system on the planet does not have silly, unprofessional name...

The difference is that git was among the best-in-class and developed and used by the people behind Linux, and that the word 'git' wasn't as offensive as 'gimp'.

If GIMP had feature-parity with Photoshop, and had been adopted by Condé Nast or ILM, and had a less-offensive name like "Dumm" or "Silly Image Editor", then this would be more comparable.

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#175

Post by lynndotpy »

F3nd0 wrote: post #172
jrm4 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, that's kind of a ridiculous "impression," easily refuted by many of us who have wanted to recommend GIMP to people. And again, it's called "reading the room." Even if you don't care about it being "offensive" or a "slur," names still matter. Like, if the word "poop" was in the name of some otherwise good software.

> Respectfully, that's kind of a ridiculous "impression," easily refuted by many of us who have wanted to recommend GIMP to people. Is it though? Almost every time the topic is discussed, I see someone in the comments only then learning that the word is also known by some as a slur. > Like, if the word "poop" was in the name of some otherwise good software. Except that ‘poop’ is a common word with a single common mea…

I think "Do people commonly understand 'gimp' as a derogatory word?" is the wrong question.

The right question is, "Did _enough_ people understand 'gimp' as a derogatory word to harm its adoption?" and the answer is probably yes.

The people complaining about GIMP's name are the ones who love and use it, who have seen the name cause problems. There's a modicum of grief for the counterfactual (of how much better GIMP might be if it didn't set up artificial barriers for itself), and the frustration with people who obstinately don't see the problem.

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#176

Post by lynndotpy »

F3nd0 wrote: post #161
lynndotpy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree, and I've been hammering this point as a GIMP user for two decades I think the "GIMP is actually a fine name" are increasingly a minority. Its name makes GIMP hostile to user adoption. Anyone who works in a primarily English-spekaing country knows what it's like to try to use GIMP at work, especially in K-12. It's not like it was an accident, either. GIMP is a backronym because they wanted to name it af…

> Anyone who works in a primarily English-spekaing country knows what it's like to try to use GIMP at work, especially in K-12. Over the many times this topic was brought up here, plenty of people from English-speaking countries have said that no, they’ve never had a problem with it. Yes, some people did have a problem with it. It's a valid point to bring up. But that does not mean their experience must have been sha…

That's fair, it's likely not _everybody_ would have a problem. But _enough_ people would. There are contexts where I've had no problems (e.g. in an office where every cubicle had at least one Linux machine, plenty of people had already heard of GIMP).

I think if GIMP had a different name, it would have had less friction in its adoption (or a higher "R-number"), Adobe would be less extractive (for having viable FOSS to compete with), and GIMP would have had more investment (in terms of money and dev hours). I'm certainly happy GIMP isn't completely abandoned, at the very least.

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#177

Post by jaffa2 »

lynndotpy wrote: post #116
Asooka wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, every term for disabled people becomes a slur. Moron->idiot->retard (the latter being so unacceptable in modern speech it is labelled by the kids as "the hard r"). But you are right, we should simply not use terms for disabled people in software names. I propose "Thirty Years and Still Cannot Draw a Circle" or the hip short name :no-entry-sign: emoji.

Tangent, but it might help you avoid an embarrassing situation later on. If someone says "They called me the hard-R", they're not talking about the R-word. "R----d" is usually just called "the R word", while "the hard R" refers specifically to the standard version of "the N word". (As opposed to "the soft A", which is sometimes used synonymous with "dude".)

hard R = ends in 'a' soft R = ends in 'er' ? or am i wrong

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#178

Post by jaffa2 »

Is there any long form articles on the GIMP UI? I see it time and time again people complaining about Gimps UI. Personally I've used Gimp on and off for like 25 years but i find it hella clunky and I often need to google how to do basic stuff. Also been using photoshop since v3 and I know it well enough to get by.

I see some discussion on the copy paste. Funnily enough i was copy pasting stuff yesterday in Gimp and yeah there is something funky that I couldn't put my finger on. It makes the app feel really janky clicking here and ther doesn't work, renaming the pasted layer. do i click once ? double click? hit enter? I coudln't work it out as the behaviour seemed inconsistent. I also couldn't work out how to get a pasted layer to align to top left. I had to align it manually every time. sigh.

anyway is ther any decent articles that discuss this anywhere that someone could link me?

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#179

Post by croes »

jrm4 wrote: post #169
croes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who use Slack and Twitter and now X? If GIMP would create profit they could call it dogshit and the same people would visit the Shit-Con for business news

This is so painfully wrong it hurts; many a company has lived and/or died PURELY on name.

Examples?

Re: Photo GIMP – A Patch for GIMP 3 for Photoshop Users

#180

Post by pbalau »

Gimp will never be able to pull a Blender because they are operating on hugely different conditions.

Blender never had to play catch up with a proprietary file format. In Blender's world, fbx and any of the video formats are the way to interop with other studios.

In the Photoshop/Gimp world, the interop format is psd. Under full control of Adobe.

There is also the matter of price. Maya and 3dStudioMax are eye watering expensive, while Photoshop is dirt cheap. As a professional photographer, I can get the 300 GBP it costs me to have Lightroom and Photoshop for one year, in an afternoon.

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