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Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

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Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#171

Post by nchmy »

keybored wrote: post #161
nchmy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a good use of LLMs - asking whether this article is milquetoast. It's not. https://chatgpt.com/share/69b9be3b-a298-8009-bb21-c3afef1e5e... Moreover, that word doesn't even fit within the parent comment's context. > Incredibly milquetoast. I would not like to work with anyone who goes against these points. reply They use milquetoast as a positive thing, and the opposite of how you use it. You're unfortunately m…

A use of LLMs is when you are in your second reply and you don’t have the will to make your own argument. The post is timid and conciliatory, spending words on some weird bargaining on all the wonderful things you can do with LLMs in preparation for a contribution. Who cares? I’m not in the Django project, but I’d think (living in These Times and all) that the thrust ought to be more about how no-effort faux contribu…

Great to see that you're now in agreement that your original comment made no sense!

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#172

Post by jmye »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #158
doug_durham wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the people who do everything via LLM". That's a bit of a straw man characterization. I don't believe that there are many professional developers "do everything with an LLM'. I don't even know what that statement means.

Agreed. Imo, it is important to distinguish which parts of “everything” carry the weight of the concern. By doing that - we may be able to remove “LLM” from that equation entirely. The direct problem isn’t that people are using LLMs for everything - it’s that some people can’t be bothered to provide reasonable diligence. Phrasing that concern by blaming LLMs implies that these were perfectly diligent human workers be…

Do you think they were submitting as many PRs, or do you think maybe the LLMs are enabling them to vastly over submit to these projects, meaning that in this case, LLMs are the actual, whole problem?

I find it odd how people will refuse to think about context when defending their toys.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#173

Post by wombatpm »

mrguyorama wrote: post #151
seanp2k2 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Board has decided that we can no longer afford artisanal, hand-crafted software, and that machine-made will suffice for nearly all use cases. Enshittification Enterprise Edition.

The board wants their cake and eat it too. They want AI to write all code but also still be able to fire humans for failure, because an AI can't be blamed right now. Boy I can't wait for this employment norm. Fired because you weren't allowed to take the time to review important code but "You are responsible" I wish Executives were required to be that "responsible"

Just reject a bunch of PRs two days before code freeze. They can go next sprint. In fact ask AI to provide a plausible reason for rejection. If anyone overrides, you are covered.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#174

Post by woodruffw »

marknutter wrote: post #154
woodruffw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not telling people to not use LLMs. It's telling them that using them in a specific way is not helpful. Reading beyond the first line makes it clear that the problem is a lack of comprehension, not LLM use itself. Quoting: > This isn’t about whether you use an LLM, it’s about whether you still understand what’s being contributed.

Then they could just say "understand what's being contributed" and not have to mention LLMs by name at all. They are very clearly blanket discouraging people from using LLMs at all when contributing to their project.

LLMs are mentioned because they’ve lowered the bar for contribution. This is arguably a good thing with bad side effects, and that appears to be the argument being made.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#175

Post by cyberrock »

japhyr wrote: post #130
EMM_386 wrote: post #69

This is getting really out of control at the moment and I'm not exactly sure what the best way to fix it is, but this is a very good post in terms of expressing the why this is not acceptable and why the burden if shifting on the wrong people. Will humans take this to heart and actually do the right thing? Sadly, probably not. One of the main issues is that pointing to your GitHub contributions and activity is now pa…

> One of the main issues is that pointing to your GitHub contributions and activity is now part of the hiring process. If I were hiring at this moment, I'd look at the ratio of accepted to rejected PRs from any potential candidate. As an open source maintainer, I look at the GitHub account that's opening a PR. If they've made a long string of identical PRs across a wide swath of unrelated repos, and most of those are…

Your ratio idea presumes a lot about the maintainers or the nature of the disagreements. I recently sent a handwritten PR to fix a bug in a well-respected project, which involved switching from API A to B. The maintainer was uncomfortable with using B (although I had tested it) and suggested that I call A in a loop, which seemed more dangerous to me. In the end my PR was closed and the bug is still somewhat unresolved.

Should that affect our hiring? In an ideal world, no. He had his opinion and I have mine, and I do reflect that I should've asked if I could've added integration testing to assuage his fears regarding B.

The real problem is the fact that we as an industry have celebrated using casual volunteer work as a hiring indicator and devalued our own labor to a degree unseen anywhere else. The GitHub activity grid turned us all into cattle and should be seen as a paramount violation of ethics amongst the invention of leaded gas and the VW emissions scandal.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#176

Post by boxed »

yuppiepuppie wrote: post #26
boxed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked up a change that had broad consensus and quite a bit of excitement over even by some core devs. That ticket now just sits there. The implementation is done, the review is done, there are no objections. But it's not merged. I think something is deeply wrong and I have no idea what it is.

Have you tried pinging in the Discord about it?

I'm banned for expressing my opinion that harassing new joiners who say "hey guys" is a bad idea. They claim it's anti-women to do that, even though the dictionary clearly says it's a gender neutral expression and you can see it in countless movies being said by women to only women.

Imo it's not inclusive to harass people for using English properly. But they think it's inclusive to ban me for that opinion. To each his own I guess.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#177

Post by boxed »

Yusu wrote: post #48
boxed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked up a change that had broad consensus and quite a bit of excitement over even by some core devs. That ticket now just sits there. The implementation is done, the review is done, there are no objections. But it's not merged. I think something is deeply wrong and I have no idea what it is.

Looking at your PR, the ticket is still marked as Needs documentation: yes Patch needs improvement: yes If this is done, you should update it so it appears in the review queue.

Aha. Damn, I always miss stuff like this in trac. I really with they'd move over to github tickets!

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#178

Post by Yusu »

boxed wrote: post #176
yuppiepuppie wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried pinging in the Discord about it?

I'm banned for expressing my opinion that harassing new joiners who say "hey guys" is a bad idea. They claim it's anti-women to do that, even though the dictionary clearly says it's a gender neutral expression and you can see it in countless movies being said by women to only women. Imo it's not inclusive to harass people for using English properly. But they think it's inclusive to ban me for that opinion. To each hi…

I'm sure you believe that's the reason you got banned.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#179

Post by keybored »

nchmy wrote: post #171
keybored wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A use of LLMs is when you are in your second reply and you don’t have the will to make your own argument. The post is timid and conciliatory, spending words on some weird bargaining on all the wonderful things you can do with LLMs in preparation for a contribution. Who cares? I’m not in the Django project, but I’d think (living in These Times and all) that the thrust ought to be more about how no-effort faux contribu…

Great to see that you're now in agreement that your original comment made no sense!

What I wrote last was the expanded thought process for my original comment, the same sentiment. For those who don’t understand what milquetoast means.

You can try your luck with some text slot machines. Maybe they will be able to analyze and find some discrepancies. Not that I would read those analyses.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#180

Post by boxed »

Yusu wrote: post #178
boxed wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm banned for expressing my opinion that harassing new joiners who say "hey guys" is a bad idea. They claim it's anti-women to do that, even though the dictionary clearly says it's a gender neutral expression and you can see it in countless movies being said by women to only women. Imo it's not inclusive to harass people for using English properly. But they think it's inclusive to ban me for that opinion. To each hi…

I'm sure you believe that's the reason you got banned.

I'm sure you don't believe me. To each his own. In any case I'm banned.
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