Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

geohot.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 496 posts

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#171

Post by coffeebeqn »

dominicrose wrote: post #163
bob1029 wrote: post #7

> The trick is not to play zero sum games. This is what I have been saying the whole time. Go create value for others and don’t worry about the returns. This strategy is highly effective but it's also difficult to tolerate as an ordinary advanced ape. Watching others play less noble games and obtain easier wins can be discouraging over time. I have found that the less you care about money the easier it is to acquire.…

What top players do in Age of Empires II: They keep resources (money) at zero by spending them frequently unless they have something more expensive and more urgent to buy. They are greedy because they want to pay the same amount (or less if possible) for better units (or upgrade them), which is why technology can be more urgent than creating more units. They are very risk averse, but don't look like it. The more tale…

I do behave pretty differently in video games where failure doesn’t mean I lose my house or my child goes without medicine

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#172

Post by tasuki »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #130
sfink wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, creating value isn't sufficient. But if you're creating value, you don't need that community; that community needs you. That doesn't mean it'll be easy to leave nor that you won't lose a lot by doing so, but it's better than being a leech. Leeches can only survive by finding another victim to suck blood from, and at some point that merry-go-round is going to run out of horsies. Pardon the mixed metaphors.

Philosophically, I agree, but in reality there are so many leeches, who take take take, their whole life, and in the end they are often better off, materialistically than the people, who provided the actual value.

Ah but of course leeches are better off materialistically than the people who provide value! It's almost a tautology. But do you think they're happier?

For example geohot could be vastly richer than he is if he wanted to. He wisely chooses not to, and advises others to do the same.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#173

Post by joegibbs »

shaman1 wrote: post #88
avaer wrote: post #40

It's easy to create value for others and not worry about returns when you have enough money to not worry. Unfortunately for most people, there's plenty of companies willing to take the returns and leave you paycheck to paycheck. That's literally what they are optimized to do. I don't even disagree with the ideal, but I think a prerequisite step to this philosophy is UBI.

https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2026/02/27/the-i... from the same author

I think it’s a bad idea for about the same reasons, but that’s assuming we’re implementing it right now in the current economy. If automation means that in the future there’s not much for all these people to do that creates value then it makes sense.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#175

Post by mike_hearn »

maybewhenthesun wrote: post #151
shaman1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2026/02/27/the-i... from the same author

Geohot is a smart dude. But here I think he misses the forest for the trees. He has a point, certainly. But while he is harping about the U part of ubi, he's completely ignoring the B part. UBI is meant to provide some basic income so people don't starve. It's just an optimization of welfare programs where you have a ton of bureaucracy and make people jump through endless hoops and cause them endless amounts of stres…

Someone needs to make a website explaining why UBI doesn't work conceptually because this comes up over and over again on HN.

You cannot make UBI work from money saved by removing means testing. Even UBI is a welfare scheme and would require significant bureaucratic hoop jumping to check that a person claiming it isn't:

• Dead

• Non-citizen

• Already claiming it under a different name/bank account/etc

• In prison

• Moved abroad

and so on. All that is expensive, and yet the overheads of even existing welfare systems just aren't high compared to the amounts they pay out. Getting rid of means testing doesn't magically make the numbers balance.

Geohot is correct. UBI seems to only appeal to people who don't understand how the economy works. You can't have an economy in which one person earns all the money by definition.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#176

Post by peepee1982 »

p697 wrote: post #101

The whole world is obsessed with openclaw. Some companies are now even evaluating their employees' built agents, the tokens consumed, and the money spent on AI. It's really gotten out of hand.

The whole world ... Some companies ...

What is it, man?

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#177

Post by zozbot234 »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #166
zozbot234 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "real tough jobs" pay little because the marginal job of that kind does not really create that much value. That in turn happens because the most disadvantaged tend to crowd into these jobs, to the neglect of other, more value-creating activities - yet another issue that might be handily addressed by UBI.

Phew, I am having a real hard time agreeing with you there. I mean, just imagine what would happen, if those social and tough jobs were not performed by people dedicated specifically to doing those jobs. Then we would all have to take care of our family's elderly and that can easily turn into a full time job itself. Let just one relative have Alzheimers or they for some reason cannot move any longer, or even less dra…

That's why I stated that the marginal job is what sets the reward. We actually have a lot more people wanting to do these jobs than we reasonably have a use for. Your mention of hospital nursing is actually a case in point: actual Registered Nurses are quite scarce, often do highly valuable, specialized work, and get paid a lot.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#178

Post by echelon_musk »

maybewhenthesun wrote: post #151
shaman1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2026/02/27/the-i... from the same author

Geohot is a smart dude. But here I think he misses the forest for the trees. He has a point, certainly. But while he is harping about the U part of ubi, he's completely ignoring the B part. UBI is meant to provide some basic income so people don't starve. It's just an optimization of welfare programs where you have a ton of bureaucracy and make people jump through endless hoops and cause them endless amounts of stres…

The owners of production paying taxes?! Seems unlikely.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#179

Post by 10xDev »

You will get laid off but you won't if you create value and you will create value if you don't care about money and it will go recursive but it won't go recursive because there are limits. It won't change anything but it will change everything.

No one knows what he is actually saying (see comments) but at least he managed to compress the entire discourse on AI impact into a blog post.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#180

Post by mike_hearn »

zozbot234 wrote: post #93
shaman1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2026/02/27/the-i... from the same author

Which of course ignores the obvious point that UBI is all about taking existing resource redistribution and making it less costly and more efficient. Practically all Western countries redistribute income on a massive scale (compared to the default outcomes of a completely free market capitalism) in order to ensure everyone can provide for their basic needs, and that could all be gradually replaced by UBI. This is bro…

Forget UBI and AI. They are distractions. Today it's very unclear that even just existing welfare schemes are sustainable. Political parties can buy votes with welfare and they do, so it's an unstable configuration. Europe is full of countries with this problem.

A good example of a country in a downward spiral towards UBI hell is the UK. Around 25% of the working-age population now claim to be disabled, and around 10% receive disability benefits. Labour have a genius idea for how to fix this: let disabled people try out employment for a bit to see if they like it, whilst keeping their welfare payments. So they're turning disability benefits into UBI by the back door.

The UK can't afford anything even close to this. It can't even afford the theoretically non-universal benefits schemes it has: it has massive government debt and deficits because its economy doesn't generate enough wealth, and its health welfare system (the NHS) experiences Soviet-style shortages all the time.

This has happened despite that we've been mass automating jobs with computers and robots for decades. Chips aren't magic wands that make communism suddenly work. The problems with wealth redistribution are fundamental and will never go away regardless of your level of technology.

If you disagree, fine, but please for the love of God focus on walking before you can run. Drive government deficits to zero whilst keeping growth at US levels, and then talk about more generous welfare schemes.

(you can't magic new money by eliminating means testing either, see my other comment on this thread).

Post reply on HN