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Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

bbc.com

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Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#171

Post by libertine »

regularization wrote: post #14
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

“To simplify greatly, the strategy of non-violence aims first to cause disruption (non-violently) in order both to draw attention but also in order to bait state overreaction. The state’s overreaction then becomes the ‘spectacular attack’ which broadcasts the movement’s message, while the group’s willingness to endure that overreaction without violence not only avoids alienating supporters, it heightens the contrast…

> non-violence Armed Baloch and Kurdish groups have been boasting of firing on Iranian police. The police are firing back. Hard to call them non-violent when they openly boast about armed attacks. Who knows where they are getting their weapons, with western countries also openly declaring their intent to destabilize Iran.

This is a bit confusing, isn't Iran actively trying to destabilize Western countries?

Like for example supporting Russia genocide in Ukraine? As far as I know Ukraine had no qualms with Iran, why is Iran helping it's destruction?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#172

Post by reliabilityguy »

pydry wrote: post #107
Wytwwww wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are no circumstances where armed rebellion is justifiable and the only legitimate type of resistance to state violence is literally trying to drown the state forces in bodies of non-violent protestors? At a certain point there ceases to be a middle path between violent resistance and complete surrender. > Protesters which foreign states (China or Russia) This type of relativism is dishonest. Of course US is…

>So there are no circumstances where armed rebellion is justifiable What circumstances has Iran created that demand armed rebellion?

I think beating women on the streets for refusal to wear hijab contributes to dissatisfaction of the populace with the government.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#173

Post by reliabilityguy »

pydry wrote: post #133
mupuff1234 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic collapse, failed infrastructure, lack of human rights, ruthless religious dictatorship? All while spending 25% of their budget on military ventures. Just to name a few.

The economic suffering has largely been inflicted deliberately by US sanctions. This would seem to suggest that sinking an aircraft carrier and frigate or two would actually be justified according to your principles?

> The economic suffering has largely been inflicted deliberately by US sanctions.

Which were imposed for work on atomic bomb. These sanctions didn’t come out of the blue.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#174

Post by mikkupikku »

hunterpayne wrote: post #139
santoshalper wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. We absolutely have the option to let things play out in Iran and refuse to intervene. There are many regimes in Africa that are as bad or worse than Iran. We seem to have little interest in "regime change" there. You should think about why not.

Those African regimes don't spend billions a year to promote and fund terrorism in other countries. Remember kids, you can kill millions of your own people (Stalin, Mao, etc) and nobody will care. Heck, some will even celebrate you. But don't mess with people in another country, otherwise outsiders will get involved. Iran is the main source of violence and terrorism in the most violent part of the world. Maybe, just…

Iran has committed or contributed to virtually zero terrorism in America. The American people have no legitimate beef with Iran, America is just acting as Israel's rabid attack dog.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#175

Post by hunterpayne »

don_esteban wrote: post #57
Atlas667 wrote: post #10

Many are protesting because of the sanctions, considered war crimes, imposed by the west onto them. The US and its allies have attacked the currency and the availability of goods for the common Iranian. This is how regime change works. This is what is happening in Cuba as well. You starve and disenfranchise the average person to make regime change by internal bad-actors more successful. Therefore many citizens protes…

Funny that this is downvoted. I guess its not fitting the mainstream 'feel good about ourselved, bad, bad, Iran' narrative. Just have a look at Besson's Davos interview.

You only think that because your political partisanship overwhelms your geopolitical knowledge. But sure, a country that is the primary funder of terrorism in the ME is doing nothing wrong.

They didn't, for instance, mess up the building of water infrastructure which is causing the taps to run dry in their capitol. Oh wait, they did. But since that has nothing to do with sanctions, you didn't hear about it because it doesn't fit a specific political narrative.

Also, apparently everyone in the world has the right to trade with the west, even if they are doing everything in their power to destroy the west.

PS Iran funds the Russian war in Ukraine.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#176

Post by Betelbuddy »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #168
Betelbuddy wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> 99% of the moderation at HN is just the accumulated actions of your fellow readers who upvote This is false, and even the moderators admit it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46396613

> So the mods at HN allow us too read about other countries protests, but not in the U.S.? I guess if all those illegal immigrants had oil, it'd be okay? > Despite how dark and sinister you've made everything sound, you've mostly just rephrased what I wrote, with a lot of pejoratives. In that sense, you're right—there isn't much disagreement here. You just think we're wrong and bad to run HN the way we do, and that's…

That is a totally different argument, than the one you were making.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#177

Post by JumpCrisscross »

injidup wrote: post #167
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

“To simplify greatly, the strategy of non-violence aims first to cause disruption (non-violently) in order both to draw attention but also in order to bait state overreaction. The state’s overreaction then becomes the ‘spectacular attack’ which broadcasts the movement’s message, while the group’s willingness to endure that overreaction without violence not only avoids alienating supporters, it heightens the contrast…

> the only viable solution becomes giving the movement its demands. This interpretation reeks of Western naivete. Students were not merely arrested — they were gunned down en masse in the streets and even in hospitals. They were provoked by the U.S. president, who promised support to take on the institutions, but that support never materialized. The likely endgame of this current gunboat diplomacy is similar to Venez…

> interpretation reeks of Western naivete

The author is "an ancient and military historian who currently teaches as a Teaching Assistant Professor at North Carolina State University" [1].

> Students were not merely arrested — they were gunned down en masse in the streets and even in hospitals

Non-violent doesn't mean peaceful.

People died in our Civil Rights protests. People died in the Indian independence and the Phillipines' People Power Revolution. Each of their leaders were gunned down, and the last won in an autocracy. (Even if you only read the blurb, the state's violent overreaction is part of the parcel.)

> They were provoked by the U.S.

Lots of Americans think the world revolves around us. The truth is we have less influence than we think. We didn't provoke these protests, though we did give them false hope.

> the U.S. secures resource access while leaving the existing system intact, and the student protesters are hunted down

Which opposition figure is being hunted down in Venezuela under Rodriguez?

[1] https://acoup.blog/about-the-pedant/

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#178

Post by cardanome »

Razengan wrote: post #12

Sorry about the whataboutery but it's "funny" how chaos in non Western-allied countries gets so much coverage, even when it doesn't affect us, but shit like the people of France's New Caledonia trying to get independence doesn't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6S1AFh88PE I didn't even know about that, just that it was a beautiful place and looked it up one day to fantasize about a potential future vacation, and saw…

You know Venezuela, Iran, Kuba. I wonder what all these countries that western Media tells us have "oppressive regimes" have in common.

Funny how they all have spoken out against the genocide in Gaza. One would think that would be the link on why they are targeted. Maybe the problem is not humanitarian but that they are opposing US imperialism?

Just like all the times before. You know when Iraq was preparing weapons of mass destruction. When Libya needed to be bombed for the good of its people so that Islamist warmongers could destroy the country. When the US brought the Taliban into power to fight the Soviets and then invaded Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban again. And then left and now the Taliban are fine again.

War. War never changes. It is the same old lies.

Now they want to destroy Iran.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#179

Post by mikkupikku »

philwelch wrote: post #148
santoshalper wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. We absolutely have the option to let things play out in Iran and refuse to intervene. There are many regimes in Africa that are as bad or worse than Iran. We seem to have little interest in "regime change" there. You should think about why not.

How many of those African regimes sponsor terrorism and piracy against Americans, or adopt “death to America” as a motto?

Iran occasionally attacks Americans in the region or abroad generally, but they don't attack Americans in America despite all of their "death to America" rhetoric (which they are more than entitled to.) If you add up who's fucking with who and who's being fucked with, the imbalance between America and Iran is enormous.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#180

Post by JumpCrisscross »

don_esteban wrote: post #120
stickfigure wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to only have a good track record in places with a democratic tradition. Some dictators have figured out you can just imprison and kill the opposition, and keep doing this until there is no more opposition. The Khomeini government is not going to just say "oh, you're right" and change. Neither will the Kim or Putin governments. Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer.

Re: Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer. The least worst for whom?! For normal Iranian people who just want to leave their life? I hate my current government. Do I think an armed uprising or a USA bombing campaign would would improve things? Heck NO!

> normal Iranian people who just want to leave their life?

Like the ones who are protesting? Idk, when people put themselves in front of a gun I'm inclined to listen to what they're demanding, not folks in their armchairs a world away.

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