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FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

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Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#171

Post by Zak »

stackghost wrote: post #137
bitexploder wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not. We have this thing in our constitution called the 5th amendment. You cannot be forced to divulge the contents of your mind, including your pin or passwords. Case law supports this. For US citizens at least. Hopefully the constitution is still worth something.

You're forgetting about the Constitution-Free Zone within 100 miles of all points of entry including international airports that covers essentially all of the 48.

This is a misunderstanding. That's the area in which the border patrol has jurisdiction to can conduct very limited searches of vehicles and operate checkpoints without individualized suspicion in order to enforce immigration law. It does not allow searches of electronic devices.

There is a separate border search exception at the point a person actually enters the country which does allow searches of electronic devices. US citizens entering the country may refuse to provide access without consequences beyond seizure of the device; non-citizens could face adverse immigration actions.

To be clear, I do think all detentions and searches without individualized suspicion should be considered violations of the 4th amendment, but the phrase "constitution-free zone" is so broad as to be misleading.

Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#172

Post by pbhjpbhj »

hypfer wrote: post #39
pc86 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: What are the "valid concerns" about people securing their computing devices against third parties?

This (I think) refers not to the people securing their devices against third parties but the vendors "securing" the devices against loss of profits. Essentially, the question referenced here is that of ownership. Is it your device, or did you rent it from Apple/Samsung/etc. If it is locked down so that you can't do anything you want with it, then you might not actually be its owner. ___ _Ideally_ you wouldn't need to…

We don't know if they did the right thing here. With a previous case it seemed (to me) like Apple might have pushed an update to give access ... they presumably could do that, remotely copy all the data, then return the device to the former state. One can't know, and this sort of thing seems entirely tenable.

FBI don't have to tell anyone they accessed the device. That maintains Apples outward appearance of security; FBI just use parallel construction later if needed.

Something like {but an actually robust system} a hashed log, using an enclave, where the log entries are signed using your biometric, so that events such a network access where any data is exchanged are recorded and can only be removed using biometrics. Nothing against wrench-based attacks, of course.

Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#173

Post by LordGrey »

steve-atx-7600 wrote: post #75
aquir wrote: post #66

We need a Lockdown mode for MacBooks as well!

Looks like it’s a feature: https://support.apple.com/en-us/105120

To save a click:

* Lockdown Mode needs to be turned on separately for your iPhone, iPad, and Mac.

* When you turn on Lockdown Mode for your iPhone, it's automatically turned on for your paired Apple Watch.

* When you turn on Lockdown Mode for one of your devices, you get prompts to turn it on for your other supported Apple devices.

Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#174

Post by Blackthorn »

skeptic_ai wrote: post #100
hnrayst wrote: post #4

[flagged]

Still go to prison for not showing. So until devices have multiple pins for plausible deniability we are still screwed. What’s so hard to make 2-3 pins and each to access different logged in apps and files. If Apple/android was serious about it would implement it, but from my research seems to be someone that it’s against it, as it’s too good. I don’t want to remove my Banking apps when I go travel or in “dangerous”…

They are willing to kill people and then justify it by calling them terrorists. Plausible deniability is pointless.

Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#176

Post by Cthulhu_ »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #38

Every time something like this happens I assume it is a covert marketing campaign. If the government wants to get in they’re going to get in. They can also hold you in contempt until you do. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good thing that law enforcement cant easily access this on their own. Just feels like the government is working with Apple here to help move some phones.

Better to be held in contempt than to give up constitutional rights under pressure - most functioning democracies have and defend the right to free press, protecting said press sources, and can't make you incriminate yourself.

Anyway, it's a good thing to be skeptical about claims that iphones can't be hacked by government agencies, as long as it doesn't mean you're driven to dodgier parties (as those are guaranteed honeypots).

Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#177

Post by shermantanktop »

text0404 wrote: post #139
vincenzothgreat wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it turning into fascism?

- Concentration of power in the executive, dismantling checks and balances - Hyper-nationalism and white supremacist messaging - Scapegoating of minorities - Attacks on the press - Attacks on constitutional rights - Militarization of police, violence normalized - Expansion of surveillance state - Combination of state and corporate power - Strongman authoritarianism - Historical revisionism - Interference in elections…

- State-aligned media outlets, where media consumption choice is a political act

- Grandiose architecture projects for historically important sites

- Obsession with massive monuments - the tallest, the most gold, the most expensive

- Military parades and lionization of the military, while demanding political support from military leadership

- A population which become keenly interested in whether something does or doesn’t benefit the leader personally

I think the terms fascism or authoritarianism are close enough to be helpful, even if some of the specifics don’t align perfectly. But the ones that do align are oddly specific sometimes.

Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#178

Post by Gud »

billfor wrote: post #170
stouset wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely every aspect of it? What’s so hard about adding a feature that effectively makes a single-user device multi-user? Which needs the ability to have plausible deniability for the existence of those other users? Which means that significant amounts of otherwise usable space needs to be inaccessibly set aside for those others users on every device—to retain plausible deniability—despite an insignificant fractio…

Android phones are multi-user, so if they can do it then Apple should be able to.

And how do you explain your 1TB phone that has 2GB of data, but only 700GB free?

Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#179

Post by jb1991 »

billfor wrote: post #170
stouset wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely every aspect of it? What’s so hard about adding a feature that effectively makes a single-user device multi-user? Which needs the ability to have plausible deniability for the existence of those other users? Which means that significant amounts of otherwise usable space needs to be inaccessibly set aside for those others users on every device—to retain plausible deniability—despite an insignificant fractio…

Android phones are multi-user, so if they can do it then Apple should be able to.

This is called whataboutism. This particular feature aside, sometimes there are very good reasons not to throw the kitchen sink of features at users.

Re: FBI couldn't get into WaPo reporter's iPhone because Lockdown Mode enabled

#180

Post by chuckadams »

ddtaylor wrote: post #158
chuckadams wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA is not going to tip its hand about any backdoors it had built into the hardware for something as small as this.

It depends on if parallel reconstruction can be used to provide deniability.

Even a parallel construction has limited uses, since you can't use the same excuse every time. The NSA probably doesn't trust the FBI to come up with something plausible.
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