Live data from Hacker News

IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

ikea.com

171–180 of 241 posts

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#171

Most of my current-gen IKEA switches will pop out from their steel cradles with normal button presses, because of the curved back of the switch and the curved cradle it connects to magnetically. They've thrown in die-cut double sided adhesive tissue in what I assume was an afterthought, which doesn't peel from one backer sheet in any of the packages I've opened... Maybe it's humidity or temperature sensitive? After a…

> I've been burned by trusting Matter to mean broad compatability; my Aqara lock doesn't indicate how the door was unlocked over Matter despite showing up in their app, and this is after having to buy their Zigbee bridge because it won't connect to Zigbee devices from other brands.

Matter was made by the same guys that created Zigbee, proprietary vendor extensions are their bread and butter. Anything trickier than a contact sensor or motion detector, you should definitely research compatibility and definitely not update firmware once it works.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#172
post #29
post #3

IKEA's Zigbee devices have been some of the more stable smart devices I owned. I wasn't running their hub, opting to run with deCONZ in the past and moving to Zigbee2MQTT in recent years. I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.

Fwiw, Smartwings blinds are cost effective and have worked great for me for years now. Cone in both z-wave and zig flavors.

US brand only.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there’s not good support for very low power devices that use WiFi That's why we have Thread. Wifi just isn't a very efficient protocol for using with deep sleep. The radio takes more power to run, the overhead of connecting is higher, and the device needs a full IP stack. Even with power save mode (if supported by client and AP), the radio is on for hundreds of milliseconds to send a message. Thread has "sleepy end…

Thread is fine, but also wifi is fine. Sleepy end device doesn't work very well with wifi, as I understand it, (from trying to implement it using the ESP32 SDK), because Matter generally wants all devices to check in several times an hour at least. Take a smart scale for example. Mine uses wifi and is in deep sleep almost all of the time. When you step on it, it weighs you, connects to wifi, and sends the measurement…

ESP32 has inherent sleep issues and before their latest chip (c6 I think) 'deep sleep' was really a gpio- or rtc- triggered boot followed by a power off. Doesn't mean it's impossible to implement wifi sleep efficiently, but if you do the math anything wifi based won't work off cr2032 for even a year unless daily updates is all you need. Motion sensors are supposed to fire more often, and with much less latency that can be done via WiFi, so it doesn't really work for battery powered sensors in the general case. You could probably use ESPNow and a custom gateway node but at that point it's just another custom RF protocol and you're better off with something standard like 802.15.4 or BLE..

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#175

I really like the idea of an open, local standard for this stuff. I have been a little annoyed at the matter standards immaturity still. Two things I’ve noticed is that there’s not good support for very low power devices that use WiFi. What you’d like to do, for example for a battery powered sensor, is to go into deep sleep and disconnect from the WiFi and then wake up periodically and report the sensor reading. Unfo…

I've seen somebody on Reddit using LoRa stuff for the home. The problem with these wifi based sensors is that you eventually run out of IP addresses (yes you could get fancy with subnet setup but still). Another problem is that at some point you might want to swap routers -- I had to swap out a faulty Netgear router, and the re-set was a major PITA. For these reasons I've been moving to Zigbee.

Approximately every home wifi router I've ever used has a class C subnet configured by default, out of the box.

That's enough for over 250 networked widgets to be concurrently connected with IPV4. That's a lot of widgets for one home.

If a person is getting into the realm of having a home with more than 250 networked widgets and addressing is becoming problematic in ways that are beyond their understanding and/or ability, then:

I might suggest that this is roughly equivalent to any other household thing that a homeowner doesn't fully understand (or that they don't want to understand), and that it would be completely fair to remind them that it is perfectly normal and acceptable to hire a qualified person or company to -- you know -- look into that for them.

(It's ok to hire a plumber, or a roofer, or a painter, or a cleaner, or any number of other professionals to help with making stuff work. It's also OK to hire someone to work on the network.)

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#176

Most of my current-gen IKEA switches will pop out from their steel cradles with normal button presses, because of the curved back of the switch and the curved cradle it connects to magnetically. They've thrown in die-cut double sided adhesive tissue in what I assume was an afterthought, which doesn't peel from one backer sheet in any of the packages I've opened... Maybe it's humidity or temperature sensitive? After a…

I have been spending hours the past couple weeks "ensmartening" my home with IoT switches and power outlets. Home Assistant is gorgeous and is an absolute feat of engineering and a testament to the power of open source, but messing with it you can tell that it's very much "by nerds, for nerds". I don't expect my wife to learn to edit YAML files so she can customize a dashboard. The drag and drop editor mostly works but it's missing a lot of functionality. And if your network topology is anything but flat (i.e. everything connected to one consumer router, which probably does cover 95% of people) then good luck with any of the discovery technology like mDNS or broadcast domains. I have dnsmasq allocate hostnames and static IPs for all my stuff and manually punch in the hostname for 99% of things in HA.

The ecosystem I've had the best luck with is, sadly, Tuya, aka Smart Life, aka giant Chinese conglomerate. Pretty much any small brand (or even some bigger brands) use Tuya to build because they have easy off-the-shelf solutions, and I have some confidence that they're large and entrenched enough that they won't randomly shut off their cloud services. But even if they do, enough reverse-engineering work has been put in that you can run most of your devices locally without a cloud connection. The cloud connection is pretty seamless and is the easiest thing I've had to configure in HA. Once you add a device in the Smart Life app you just reload the HA integration and there it is, ready to go. I actually get less latency toggling lights through HA than through the Smart Life app. I don't really worry about them knowing when my front door is shut or my living room lights are off, and I keep all that stuff on its own VLAN with no outgoing access to the rest of my network.

As I start dabbling with Zigbee and Thread and Matter and stuff, it seems like all of these other "open" "ecosystems" are really complicated and require buying a bunch of hardware I don't want and coordinating another network on another protocol, whereas the Wi-Fi stuff just usually works. It makes (some) sense for extremely low power devices that need to run for years on a battery, but lights and outlets don't really need to be Zigbee devices. BLE devices over an ESPHome Bluetooth proxy work surprisingly well too, and BLE is a less crummy technology than Bluetooth proper and seems to be low power enough for a lot of battery operated devices. I wish everything would just support MQTT because that seems like the most "universal" IoT protocol there is.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#177

Coming as a very disgruntled and burned Philips Hue owner. Only four bulbs, but Philips is a name which leaves behind bile when spoken. Ikea's Tradfri line was very refreshing for being entirely configurable with the wireless remote it comes with. You can connect multiple bulbs to one remote, without ever tinkering with an app or a hub or Home Assistant, etc. Crucially, old TRADFRI communicated from the remote contro…

Matter does have the concept of Binding which is exactly this. Not sure if ikea implemented it, but the spec supports it!

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#178
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A standard where you have to pay to play. Cheapest option is 3000$ per product and 500$ annual.

I wasn't aware of that. One other concern I have with Matter is that, if I understand correctly, Thread+Matter devices get their own IP address with internet access, whereas with Zigbee all of that has to be controlled by the gateway. In theory that's a win for Matter, but I'm a little concerned about the security and enshitification problems that might cause. I kinda like the idea that I can buy a cheap IoT lock off…

Neither Matter nor Matter-over-Thread require Internet access.

We really should be yelling for advancements in simple-to-configure dedicated, restricted VLANs and SSIDs for IOT devices instead of yelling about how inappropriate we think that using IP is.

(Historically, IP wins in these conundrums anyway. IP has been succession of grand successes for decades.

Resistance is futile. We should work to prepare for the eventually of what is to come.)

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an ease of cleaning value that comes from a single unbroken surface. That said - placement needs some work. Or put the UI in a phone.

I like the Impulse Labs hob which has an unbroken surface and magnetic knobs that can be removed for cleaning.

This one is absolutely legit amazing, but the price, oof.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho Home Assistant is the way to go - there's just so much weirdness going on in a regular home you need to accomodate that with any of these 'turnkey' solutions, you'll run into some limitation that you can't get around. HA is fiddly but with enough effort you can make anything run the way you want to, and the community is pretty active.

I tried Home Assistant, but found it fiddly and to have weird limitations, e.g. the recommendation to limit statistics collection to 90 days for performance reasons (so you have to set up something like InfluxDB otherwise). The UI is also weird and not very logical. weirdness going on in a regular home you need to accomodate that with any of these 'turnkey' solutions Homey Pro supports user apps written in HomeyScrip…

Luckily me and my partner are all Apple, so even though the smart home is backed by Home Assistant, our interface to it is via the Home app (or Siri)
Post reply on HN