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Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

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Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#171

Post by epicureanideal »

thfuran wrote: post #165
epicureanideal wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society would be better if we could, and we would all benefit. Looking at what the growth trajectories are of countries with high corruption, it’s not great, so our growth is probably still reduced by the corruption or lawlessness that still exists.

Why do you think having billionaires at all is of benefit to society? Or do you just mean that the people inclined to break rules to accumulate unreasonable wealth would just follow them instead if that worked as well and that is what would benefit society?

Because in a well organized society where wealth accumulation is not by corruption, then by definition it would be by creating value, which benefits everyone.

The alternative is something like oligarchs that extract wealth because of state granted monopolies, corporatism that strangles competition with anti competitive regulation, etc. The accumulation of wealth is all out of proportion and possibly not even correlated in those cases with the production of actual value.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#172

Post by bigiain »

hippari2 wrote: post #163
Sharlin wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, but you don't have to work.

More like you are not allowed to work. Loss of work experience, loss network, not even accounting for inflation.

I would welcome an opportunity to walk away from the entire tech industry with a guaranteed-for-life income, allowing me to pursue dreams without them needing to be financially viable. Setting up as a high end timber boat builder without ever needing to turn a profit while still having the same income I do now is something I'd jump at immediately.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#173

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

v5v3 wrote: post #99
whiplash451 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen this is France and UK but it lasts only a few months and no you can’t refuse the payment - but the company can refuse to pay and set you free.

In UK it's called gardening leave. A period when you are still employed but not at work and can't join another company without agreement. Uk law generally is that non compete clause is ok, if the length of time is reasonable. But you can't stop a person with a trade from applying that trade unreasonably. Most tend to be 3-6 months. Normally it's to stop a person leaving from stealing clients.

There is a difference between non-solicitation and non-compete. In the US, the former obligation might be acceptable while the later might not.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#174

Post by neximo64 »

tianqi wrote: post #45

I think the Chinese law is effective in this regard: in order to maintain any non-competition agreement, the company must continue to pay you a monthly compensation amount equal to 30% of your total monthly income when you were at the company. Whenever the payment stops, the non-competition agreement is automatically void.

That actually sounds bad, since after the payments end you can basically speak about IP and its as if you're encouraged to do so after payments stop.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#176

Post by muzani »

v5v3 wrote: post #97
tianqi wrote: post #45

I think the Chinese law is effective in this regard: in order to maintain any non-competition agreement, the company must continue to pay you a monthly compensation amount equal to 30% of your total monthly income when you were at the company. Whenever the payment stops, the non-competition agreement is automatically void.

That's a terrible law. 30% of your total monthly income as it was, when you are likely leaving for more money at a competitor or to start your own company...

Bad if you leave for a competitor. I've never really done so. Fintech, social media, recipes, bidding, e-commerce, fashion, saas, mental health, games, and so on. There's just a wide range of fields you can go into that don't compete and still use the same skills.

Unless the previous employer is slow and incompetent, if you've done good work, they'd probably be ahead and better funded. I'd take the money.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#177

Post by sagarm »

hippari2 wrote: post #163
Sharlin wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, but you don't have to work.

More like you are not allowed to work. Loss of work experience, loss network, not even accounting for inflation.

And loss of negotiating power -- the company knows your BATNA is garden leave, and probably not a better offer.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#178

Post by jaggederest »

bigiain wrote: post #172
hippari2 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like you are not allowed to work. Loss of work experience, loss network, not even accounting for inflation.

I would welcome an opportunity to walk away from the entire tech industry with a guaranteed-for-life income, allowing me to pursue dreams without them needing to be financially viable. Setting up as a high end timber boat builder without ever needing to turn a profit while still having the same income I do now is something I'd jump at immediately.

Plus, nobody says you can't work in any other field you like, just not whatever you used to do.

Net present value of 50% of salary for the next 30 years is something like a million dollars for most HN commenters, I'd guess.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#179

Post by lovich »

kragen wrote: post #168
lovich wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then please provide me sources. What non single digit percentage of the workforce regularly has the ability to negotiate clauses in work agreements?

Like, every single white collar worker?

White collar workers are the average Joe? And the average white collar worker negotiates terms of their employment?

It’s anecdata on my part but whenever a white collar worker tells me they don’t need a union because they can negotiate a better deal, they get real angry at me when I ask them the last time they negotiated a better deal for themselves

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#180

Post by bruce511 »

jaggederest wrote: post #178
bigiain wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would welcome an opportunity to walk away from the entire tech industry with a guaranteed-for-life income, allowing me to pursue dreams without them needing to be financially viable. Setting up as a high end timber boat builder without ever needing to turn a profit while still having the same income I do now is something I'd jump at immediately.

Plus, nobody says you can't work in any other field you like, just not whatever you used to do. Net present value of 50% of salary for the next 30 years is something like a million dollars for most HN commenters, I'd guess.

Except it's not "for life". It's until they feel free to lift the non-compete. My guess is that most information you take from a company is irrelevant in a couple years. Maybe 5 tops?

Plus it'd almost certainly end with zero notice. You'd get a email saying "you're free to go". Suddenly. After say 26 months.

So it's not like a "pension for life" - just a gap in your employment history.

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