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Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

thecity.nyc

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Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#171

Post by miki123211 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #65
woodruffw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's the point of the article -- I suspect it's more that the average New Yorker reading this NYC news site already knows who Brad Lander is. (You can also easily imagine why it wouldn't be ideal to publish the name of someone who is actively being harassed by masked thugs.)

>(You can also easily imagine why it wouldn't be ideal to publish the name of someone who is actively being harassed by masked thugs.) If I were being mistreated by enforcers I would want my name anywhere and everywhere. Public scrutiny is one's only hope when government seeks to mistreat you.

not just government enforcers, any kind of criminal enterprise too.

If I was ever blackmailed with "do X or we will kill Y", the first thing I would do is to tell the entire world. This would massively increase the risks associated with actually killing that person, as then the police would immediately know who to suspect.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#172

Post by kevingadd »

timr wrote: post #139
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're meant to be upset that they dared treat another agent of the state, I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials.

> I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials. Some basic facts are true here: a) Brad Lander had no official capacity in that situation. b) As a random person, he had no right to demand to see any documents, whatsoever, from the people doing the arrest. c) Even if he thought the detention was illegal , and th…

If a bunch of armed thugs who aren't wearing uniforms or badges show up and abduct someone, citizens don't have the right or obligation to do something about it? Just stand back and watch? That's the world you want to live in, one where kidnappings are normal?

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#173

Post by affinepplan »

zefalt wrote: post #159
affinepplan wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what on earth "other side" could there be to unidentified secret police arresting politicians of the opposite party

Obstructing a federal officer. Watch the video. Any average citizen would be arrested and detained. https://x.com/w_terrence/status/1935025940075266435

I've watched the video several times.

> Any average citizen would be arrested and detained.

yes, ICE thugs would probably behave equally lawlessly towards any civilian challenging them for a warrant. that doesn't make what happened less horrifying.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#174

Post by miki123211 »

nemomarx wrote: post #48
haswell wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scale of the protests means the protests are already working. They’re as much about spreading awareness and mobilizing the voting public as they are about current events. I don’t see a connection between their efficacy and what happened in Minnesota, which was an event that is arguably all the more reason to protest.

Good strategy if voting is still allowed in 2028, not super useful if political violence bubbles over into a coup or such. The scale of the protests is encouraging, but I remember the mass protests under Bush were about as large, and the war continued and he stayed in power. Organization needs to do something with the mass of people who are out in the streets to direct them.

Voting is always allowed. No matter how corrupt the country, no matter if it's ruled by a dictator, even in a "Free Democratic Union of Independent People's Republics", there's always going to be an election sooner or later.

Whether the elections are fair and the opposition is even allowed to field a candidate... now that's a different story.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#175

Post by NemoNobody »

duxup wrote: post #4

The whole story of telling ICE agents to just go out and find people on their own seems like a setup to empower the executive branch to have their own group of thugs. Without guidance they do what want outside the judicial system and sensible oversight / rules. This seems to be a pattern in most non democratic countries...

Trump wants to declare martial law, he is trying to incite a reasonable enough response, the courts won't challenge him, he wants riots to be bad enough that upon his issuing the Exec Order, everyone just accepts/abides by his new king powers and obeys him like one.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#176

Post by timr »

kevingadd wrote: post #172
timr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials. Some basic facts are true here: a) Brad Lander had no official capacity in that situation. b) As a random person, he had no right to demand to see any documents, whatsoever, from the people doing the arrest. c) Even if he thought the detention was illegal , and th…

If a bunch of armed thugs who aren't wearing uniforms or badges show up and abduct someone, citizens don't have the right or obligation to do something about it? Just stand back and watch? That's the world you want to live in, one where kidnappings are normal?

> If a bunch of armed thugs who aren't wearing uniforms or badges show up and abduct someone citizens don't have the right or obligation to do something about it?

Sure you do. Call the police. Record it, capture the details for evidence.

> Just stand back and watch?

Again, you're welcome to call the police. But no, you don't just get to rush in and start interfering because your sophisticated understanding of the circumstances as a complete nobody make you feel like Captain America.

> That's the world you want to live in, one where kidnappings are normal?

It's obviously not a "kidnapping". Nobody seriously believes that -- most obviously, Brad Lander, who wouldn't be screaming for a warrant from "kidnappers".

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#178

Post by kevinh »

timr wrote: post #176
kevingadd wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a bunch of armed thugs who aren't wearing uniforms or badges show up and abduct someone, citizens don't have the right or obligation to do something about it? Just stand back and watch? That's the world you want to live in, one where kidnappings are normal?

> If a bunch of armed thugs who aren't wearing uniforms or badges show up and abduct someone citizens don't have the right or obligation to do something about it? Sure you do. Call the police. Record it, capture the details for evidence. > Just stand back and watch? Again, you're welcome to call the police. But no, you don't just get to rush in and start interfering because your sophisticated understanding of the cir…

A few days ago someone shot people while pretending to be a police officer. Someone impersonating ICE for kidnapping isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#179

Post by SantalBlush »

someothherguyy wrote: post #137
haunter wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's HN not /r/politics A lot of us doesn't come here to read about US internal politics

> A lot of us doesn't come here to read about US internal politics I see this a lot, and I think, "then why are you posting comments in a thread for a article discussing US internal politics?"

Because they have an opinion on it, but want to appear even-handed.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#180

Post by NemoNobody »

lmm wrote: post #133
duxup wrote: post #4

The whole story of telling ICE agents to just go out and find people on their own seems like a setup to empower the executive branch to have their own group of thugs. Without guidance they do what want outside the judicial system and sensible oversight / rules. This seems to be a pattern in most non democratic countries...

Most democratic countries don't have decades of regular law enforcement refusing to enforce democratically agreed immigration law, which is what has made this defensible.

You are only fine if everyone is fine.

If it can happen to a brown person, it can happen to you - maybe have a little self interest, or perhaps consider how boring America would be without immigrants and black people - that's kinda where all our culture comes from, in our melting pot everything blends together.

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