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I just want to code (2023)

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Re: I just want to code (2023)

#171

Post by chairmansteve »

optymizer wrote: post #146
LandR wrote: post #114

Man, I work 8-4 Mon-Fri. As soon as 4 rolls around, I'm done with the money making portion of the day and the rest is just entirely fun stuff. I couldn't care less if what I'm doing isn't ever going to make money, it's just fun / interesting / satisfying curiosity. I run - but I know I'm never going to make money running. I climb - but I know I'm never going to make money climbing. I code for fun on my side projects…

I would like to be able to do that - I have such a long list of things I want to learn and do - but I can't just turn off my work brain at 4pm. I get sucked in by interesting problems. Low level optimization? They pay me for 9-5, but you can bet I'll be thinking about it over the weekend, maybe code up a potential solution. I used to think less about people who check out at 5pm - how can you just leave and not give a…

I think your attitude is fine. You most likely enjoy your job. You are lucky.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#172

Post by Arisaka1 »

milesvp wrote: post #157
Arisaka1 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will preface this by saying that, I decided to stop pursuing a job as a software developer because my 2 years of work experience mean nothing in the job market. Now that I ended up finding a job as a waiter (of all things) I finally enjoy learning new things again. Before, I would get chronically stressed researching the job market, gathering keywords from job openings, consuming Udemy courses at 2x speed, using AI…

I am a firm believer that the brain has finite resources. It is fundamentally no different than a muscle, in that, the muscle has resources at its disposal, and using those resources causes them to deplete faster than they can recover. This means, that at best, you can optimize how you use your brain, similar to how you can optimize how you use your muscles. You can train, to get "more" out of your brain, similar to…

>I have seen this with people who can produce a lot of output, they tend to not do the same thing all day, but find ways to work on unrelated projects. So, I'm not terribly surprised that you have an urge to code now that your brain is focused on non code related things for a large part of your day.

Funnily enough, I do still code for the largest part of my day (10am-10pm, with lunch/dinner breaks + 1 hour of gaming/Reddit), simply because I'm starting my hotel job in 2 weeks, making me technically still unemployed.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#173

Post by xboxnolifes »

goodpoint wrote: post #147
blahgeek wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more common because one doing only coding can get paid reasonably. On the contrary, few people who "bake cakes for fun, make music for fun, write poems, novels, play chess for fun, practice sports, grow potatos" can get paid enough for a living, so that's usually not an option to consider. (Which is the reason that I find us coding people very lucky.)

so you are saying work is meant to be miserable and coding is the exception. Is that a life worth living?

It's not that work is meant to be miserable, it's that if work wasn't in some ways miserable/frustrating/unrewarding/etc, more people would be doing it for free.

Or rather, you wouldn't need to pay people to do things they already enjoy doing. So, the things you need to pay people to do must contain some things that people don't want to do for free.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#174

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

59nadir wrote: post #168
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can teach someone who knows how things work how to glue libraries together when/if we do need it, but I can't teach someone who glues libraries together how to make their own things; it's simply not worth the time or effort because it's effectively like starting from scratch and I may as well start with a complete junior in that case. I just want to point out that this goes beyond an argument explaining how hobby…

For any given singular project "gluing libraries together" is not a particularly interesting critique, but as a default way of doing things it is very relevant to the resulting skill levels of people as well as their respect for quality. I have enough experience with former coworkers to understand which attitude results in which and it's with that backdrop in mind I've written the post. I stated my assumptions pretty…

> I stated my assumptions pretty clearly and why I've made them as well.

The first yes, the second no. If you had a reason for the assumption, I think it would not be an assumption.

> I have a former coworker ...

One might assume you are thinking more about your former co-worker than you are about Clubber. They could make that assumption because you describe in detail an actual instance of what you complain about in the absence of any other such description in Clubber's comment.

Should they assume that? Even if they have reasons? Even if they're right? What does it add to the discussion?

I think you could have made a good point about their assessment missing the mark because I agree that the skills you write about are improved by "finding the lowest level you can execute" more than "coding to make an actual sellable product". Still, they might consider the latter to be no different from the former (the former is certainly a more precise description, regardless). Your story about the co-worker is a good one on that topic. It's unfortunate that the assumptions make your comments easier to dismiss.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#175

Post by thelaxiankey2 »

dripdry45 wrote: post #119
LandR wrote: post #114

Man, I work 8-4 Mon-Fri. As soon as 4 rolls around, I'm done with the money making portion of the day and the rest is just entirely fun stuff. I couldn't care less if what I'm doing isn't ever going to make money, it's just fun / interesting / satisfying curiosity. I run - but I know I'm never going to make money running. I climb - but I know I'm never going to make money climbing. I code for fun on my side projects…

Fellow climber/coder... Where you climbing these days?

Sick now, but till last year it was Mt woodson/tahquitz rock/the eastern sierra. When I lived in the bay it was pinnacles, obscurities in the Santa Cruz mountains, and lovers leap/Yosemite/etc

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#176

Post by nottorp »

PhilipRoman wrote: post #111
nottorp wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: Historically, most "universal men" that greatly advanced science before the last 1-2 centuries were independently wealthy.

This also depends heavily on the field, some sciences need particle accelerators and mass spectrometers, meanwhile we can get by on a $200 pc and free wifi. This means you can bypass a lot of traditional university/lab structures.

The point is not that they could afford expensive tools.

The point is that they did their research sort of "for fun".

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#177

Post by rikroots »

blahgeek wrote: post #50
IvanK_net wrote: post #45

I have no idea why they mention coding. It is the same in any kind of job. You can bake cakes for fun, make music for fun, write poems, novels, play chess for fun, practice sports, grow potatos ... At a certain stage, you realize that in order to be able to do only that job, you must make someone pay you for it. You must do it in a way (or in a volume) which makes others happy. The fact that it makes you happy is not…

I think it's more common because one doing only coding can get paid reasonably. On the contrary, few people who "bake cakes for fun, make music for fun, write poems, novels, play chess for fun, practice sports, grow potatos" can get paid enough for a living, so that's usually not an option to consider. (Which is the reason that I find us coding people very lucky.)

I code at work so they can give me money so I can buy the stuff I need to carry on living. I have very generous employers who pay me a lot more money than I need to live on. The code I write at work is not very creative code - I contribute bugfixes and incremental improvements; I advocate for better accessibility of our products; I spend time code reviewing for colleagues. Standard work.

When the working day ends I switch from my work laptop to my personal laptop and start doing fun stuff: creative coding; curious-itch-scratch coding; etc. I'll also spend time doing the other fun stuff like writing poems, inventing languages, drawing maps, watching reaction videos - there's all that family and friend stuff too which can (often) be fun.

It's a choice: "live-to-work", or "work-to-live". I choose living. Recently my employers had a promotion round (the first in a few years) and I told my manager not to put my name forward for consideration. I'm comfortable at my current level and don't need the worries and stresses that come with increased work responsibilities - that would just get in the way of the fun stuff!

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#178

Post by alkonaut »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #112
alkonaut wrote: post #59

Do many people hobby code with that entrepreneur mindset thing? Or sit down to play guitar thinking they want to make a hit and feeling bad if they just noodle some cover songs? What a miserable existence that must be. How do you get that way? Should we blame LinkedIn or what is it?

Seems reasonable that you would struggle with the opportunity cost of your time when you're writing software for fun since you could also be working towards a greater goal of launching something that might make money. Software is relatively unique because of the multiplying effects of software (without banking on a moonshot) unlike, say, carpentry or strumming a guitar. So the opportunity cost can be even higher. You…

I still don't get it. What I want to do is make software as a hobby that can never be sold. If I start writing some boring SaaS software instead then I'm losing my opportunity to do what I like?

I think it must basically be a funamental question of goals/aspirations to begin with. I never had an aspiration to be e.g. wealthy, retire early, or make very senior positions within my company. Is that the difference?

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#179

Post by alkonaut »

Clubber wrote: post #98
alkonaut wrote: post #59

Do many people hobby code with that entrepreneur mindset thing? Or sit down to play guitar thinking they want to make a hit and feeling bad if they just noodle some cover songs? What a miserable existence that must be. How do you get that way? Should we blame LinkedIn or what is it?

>Do many people hobby code with that entrepreneur mindset thing? Or sit down to play guitar thinking they want to make a hit and feeling bad if they just noodle some cover songs? I absolutely do. Money and power is a great motivator. I don't feel bad about any of it. I took my shot and continue to do so. >What a miserable existence that must be. How do you get that way? Should we blame LinkedIn or what is it? It was…

The big difference for me is that what's actually fun (hard technical problems like e.g. writing an OS kernel, a db engine, a path tracer, an LLM from scratch...) is mentally challenging, and might progress your career, but it's not actually in any way sellable.

To make something sellable, you usually have to make it not-so-technical and not-so-complex. Simply because of the time constraints of hobby work and solo work. Your effort would go mostly to the market analysis and your product would need more polish meaning that for a personal project, it would usually be trivial (You can sell a shopping list iOS app, but you can't easily sell a 5 year hobby project making an OS). The sellable OS would be a 500 man-year product. What yo do by coding a kernel for 5 years is possibly that you can improve the product that is yourself.

So unless you actually enjoy the goal of marketing/selling/running a business, then the Shopping list iOS app won't be a good hobby.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#180

Post by asdf6969 »

optymizer wrote: post #146
LandR wrote: post #114

Man, I work 8-4 Mon-Fri. As soon as 4 rolls around, I'm done with the money making portion of the day and the rest is just entirely fun stuff. I couldn't care less if what I'm doing isn't ever going to make money, it's just fun / interesting / satisfying curiosity. I run - but I know I'm never going to make money running. I climb - but I know I'm never going to make money climbing. I code for fun on my side projects…

I would like to be able to do that - I have such a long list of things I want to learn and do - but I can't just turn off my work brain at 4pm. I get sucked in by interesting problems. Low level optimization? They pay me for 9-5, but you can bet I'll be thinking about it over the weekend, maybe code up a potential solution. I used to think less about people who check out at 5pm - how can you just leave and not give a…

It’s not my code. I don’t stress about it for the same reason a cashier doesn’t lose sleep if they sell a bruised apple
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