I’m happy to answer questions folks have on the Framework Desktop (though probably not until later today).
How is the planning progress on a trackpoint module?
Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
171–180 of 554 posts
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
As is you can buy a decent AMD mini PC for about $500 and just install Linux on it. It works very well for the most part, and a few distros offer steam OS like experiences. For my mini PC I couldn't get the EGPU to work with Linux so I'm stuck on Windows for now... But I play a few games that are Windows only ( anti cheat) so this is for the best.
Ideally what you'd be paying for is Valve's first-party partnership, and therefore a commitment to tailor Proton development to specifically ensure that this hardware keeps working (at least as well as a Steam Deck works, anyway). I believe this is what Valve has done for the Lenovo Legion Go S.
That is ideal, but also pretty unnecessary. The only thing AMD has to support on their end is Vulkan, and the work on that front is effectively finished. What Valve can offer is HID support for handheld hardware and potentially shader caching servers for huge swaths of identical hardware models.
With a desktop there's a limit to what Valve can commit to. There's not a single controller firmware to support, and probably not even a consistent GPU setup to cache for. The extent of realistic support for these AMD boards is kinda fully realized at this point. Proton is, and will remain, a plug-and-play experience for AMD users that own supported hardware.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can get a M3/M4 Max with 128 GB of RAM as well. The Studio will give you > 128 GB. I have a max with 64GB RAM, which is good enough for 70b models with a 3 bit quant. Even if I had more RAM to run larger models, my GPU would be the bottleneck.
> You can get a M3/M4 Max with 128 GB of RAM as well. To get an M4 Max so you can have 128GB, you need a macbook pro. The cheapest macbook pro with 128GB is $4700. M4 Max does have the benefit of more memory controllers, so it has twice as much memory bandwidth as Ryzen AI Max. But that's a lot of money to pay for it.
Yep. You can get an M3 Max refurbished, but will make some tradeoff with GPU performance.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#174I like the case. Nice and compact, and the swappable tiles are cute. If the case works well with non-Framework Mini-ITX motherboards I'd be tempted to pick one up.
The innards, however, are disappointing:
- I get the explanation for why soldered RAM was necessary, but that's still pretty darn close to a dealbreaker for me; I'm inclined to wait for a future motherboard revision without that limitation
- Only two Expansion Cards is vastly fewer than what I'd expect from a "Framework Desktop"
- The lack of a dGPU is unfortunate for a desktop
If I were to design a Framework Desktop, I'd replace the entire rear panel with nothing but Expansion Card slots. Literally as many as will fit; fucking fill it to the goddamn brim. And then throw in some USB4 headers to connect to even more Expansion Card slots on the front. I want a terrifyingly large number of Expansion Cards. More Type-C ports than any computer has any business having, and then even more. I don't just want people questioning my sanity; I want it to be known, plain as day, that I have gone certifiably batfuck insane.
I'd also expose the same Expansion Bay interface as the Framework 16, and offer a desktop-grade GPU in that form factor (presumably too thick and power-hungry for a laptop, but if a Framework 16 owner wants a laptop with a dummy thicc dumptruck of an ass and 30 minutes of battery life, then who am I to judge?).
And air-cooling? So 20th Century! Good opportunity as any to make liquid cooling a mainstream option.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#175Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...
Having seen how students treat school-provided Chromebooks, those IO modules will get lost and damaged at light speed.
They can get screwed down by an internal screw. They explained that for this specific use case in the linustechtips video.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#176Framework’s current policy in Asia—limiting deliveries solely to Taiwan—warrants reconsideration. Due to these restrictions, I had no choice but to purchase Apple products instead. To prevent further customer dissatisfaction, Framework should re-evaluate its shipping policies.
I understand that Framework’s logistics cannot match those of major retailers like Amazon or AliExpress. However, many customers rely on freight forwarders to access products from other countries. It is deeply disappointing that Framework does not allow shipments to these intermediaries, as they are a common and well-established workaround for limited international shipping. Given the widespread use of such services, excluding them seems unjustified.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#177Annoyingly they don't disclose that the Zen 5 ryzen chips are a mix of Zen 5 and Zen 5c low cache density optimized cores.
All laptops are using hybrid P and E cores now. That's just how it works.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ideally what you'd be paying for is Valve's first-party partnership, and therefore a commitment to tailor Proton development to specifically ensure that this hardware keeps working (at least as well as a Steam Deck works, anyway). I believe this is what Valve has done for the Lenovo Legion Go S.
That is ideal, but also pretty unnecessary. The only thing AMD has to support on their end is Vulkan, and the work on that front is effectively finished. What Valve can offer is HID support for handheld hardware and potentially shader caching servers for huge swaths of identical hardware models. With a desktop there's a limit to what Valve can commit to. There's not a single controller firmware to support, and probab…
This misses the point. The whole idea of a first party partnership or similar is that there is a known set of hardware and support for it.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#179I hate to be a hater, but having built myriad gaming PCs in my time, this doesn't really seem like much of a step forward. I'm hoping it's just the beginning. I'd love a modular plug-and-play PC parts ecosystem. This doesn't seem like that, yet.
Imagine being able to swap components between their laptops and desktops! That would be pretty cool. Not sure how practically useful, but cool nonetheless.
Technically, those tiny USB-to-whatever blocks of their laptops can be considered components and you can supposedly swap them with the desktop:
> (note the two bays for Framework's expansion cards at the bottom)
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY The ceo kind of explains why in this video. In essence it seems to be a limitation of the chip from AMD
So don't make it then? If a particular vendor's product isn't in line with the company's mission, the CEO is the one to make the call to proceed with manufacturing. edit: it's not for me and I can totally just not buy one, but if one identified with their original mission and sees this as betrayal of that, it'd be hard to justify getting a framework laptop when it's their turn to upgrade.
I disagree. Modularity is good, but if there are real technical reasons why it is not possible (like in thise case), then it could be a worthwile compromise.