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DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

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Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#171

Post by suraci »

spaceribs wrote: post #145
GTP wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a more practical view: there's nothing wrong in making profit, the important thing is that they are also doing some good.

> As though you rendered the proletarians a service in first sucking out their very life-blood and then practicing your self-complacent, Pharisaic philanthropy upon them, placing yourselves before the world as mighty benefactors of humanity when you give back to the plundered victims the hundredth part of what belongs to them! Friedrich Engels: The Condition of the Working-class in England

It feels really odd seeing Engels' quotes used like this.

The focus of Engels' criticism when he made these statements was on *capitalist production relations*, where capitalists control the means of production and obtain profits by exploiting the surplus labor time of workers. This is precisely what DeepSeek and open-source initiatives are challenging. They are turning the means of production from the private property of capitalists into public property.

I hope you did not intentionally misquote this passage.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#172

Post by sharmajai »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #27
deyiao wrote: post #21

I really admire their mindset of striving for the betterment of humanity. There was a time when OpenAI, Anthropic, and even Musk used to talk with that same lofty vision. But now, they've all shifted to competing for national interests instead, which is honestly quite disappointing.

Well, it’s a highly effective PR tactic that works well for the small fish. You say your competition is too selfish and you just want to help people and it creates a bunch of goodwill you can use to grow. Once you grow, your view on things changes, and you’re able to be more selfish. It’s not guaranteed things will go that way, but it’s certainly true that this is a good PR tactic for new entrants in to a crowded fie…

I get the urge to be cynical all the time, but this isn't that time. "Once you grow", they have already grown and competing with the SoTA models and still giving it all back to the community.

I just wish this smear campaign against them stops sometime soon.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#173

Post by yard2010 »

maxlin wrote: post #102
deyiao wrote: post #21

I really admire their mindset of striving for the betterment of humanity. There was a time when OpenAI, Anthropic, and even Musk used to talk with that same lofty vision. But now, they've all shifted to competing for national interests instead, which is honestly quite disappointing.

Saying that Musk "doesn't have the mindset" for betterment of humanity is just ignorant in a very short-sighted way. Sure, he currently has a side project of fixing the US government and ensuring US doesn't stray too far outside of its core interests, but SpaceX and Tesla are still his bread and butter he has spent most of his time on beside this scenic route. I've followed him closely since ~2016 so I can say this w…

He is not fixing anything, he is just a human, the kind with flaws, that thinks he isn't.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#174

Post by suraci »

petesergeant wrote: post #97
Szpadel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my intuition suggests that because they are not the leaders, they will not stay in news for long. This way you stay on mouth of people for longer period and by publishing code you hurt established giants by allowing much smaller players to compete.

My intuition suggests they will very shortly have state-level resources thrown at them to mean they become a consistent leader. This and Qwen have been huge for China’s prestige and whatever the Chinese for Juche is. Those is unambiguously the next space race, and there’s absolutely no reason China can’t pull ahead of the US here.

why you have thought like this? it's not how it works in China

The Chinese government only supports companies that are in line with industrial policies and are facing difficulties that require assistance. This is because such companies struggle to obtain financing from the society. The aim is to support the entire industry, not a specific company. If a company holds a leading position, it does not need to receive any "resources" from the government; it can acquire sufficient resources from the society.

China 10y bond yield is at <2%, this is a very low financing cost.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#175

Post by herewego »

johnthewise wrote: post #169
spaceribs wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As though you rendered the proletarians a service in first sucking out their very life-blood and then practicing your self-complacent, Pharisaic philanthropy upon them, placing yourselves before the world as mighty benefactors of humanity when you give back to the plundered victims the hundredth part of what belongs to them! Friedrich Engels: The Condition of the Working-class in England

this doesn't argue whether existence of profits necessarily implies exploitation of workers but asserts it and then proceeds to argue against philanthropy funded by profits. This line of reasoning only makes sense if one already accepts the initial assumption, whereas the original poster questions that very assumption, so it's a bit irrelevant quote.

I read the parent’s comment as arguing that the existence of profits implies exploitation of workers in the quoted instance (p perhaps broadly in England at the time) and that there is some similarity with DeepSeek. No hard-line assertions, just suggested similarities.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#176

Post by mdjt »

lugu wrote: post #150
wg0 wrote: post #140

In fact they are totally dismantling OpenAI. Most likely, without any intention on their part. LLMs have been more legitimate "blockchain" when most CIO magazines had these essays with "What's your blockchain strategy?" kind of stuffed material. AI bubble will burst and will burst hard. By end of 2026 at max.

I am not sure what you mean by AI bubble. Do you mean the valuation of some companies? Or course some won't do well in the future. In the meanty, a significant part of the population uses on it to accelerate their tasks (be it admin work, legal question, learning, getting inspiration). There is no way back. It feels like saying the video streaming bubble will burst in 2020. No. It is too valuable. But yes, some playe…

I mean the whole world still uses the Internet after the dot-com bubble burst. A significant amount of “AI companies” are valued with revenue multipliers never used before. 44x in the case of OpenAI for example. I agree there is no going back, but this bubble will burst, and hard. IMHO.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#177

Post by teekert »

deyiao wrote: post #21

I really admire their mindset of striving for the betterment of humanity. There was a time when OpenAI, Anthropic, and even Musk used to talk with that same lofty vision. But now, they've all shifted to competing for national interests instead, which is honestly quite disappointing.

Isn't Musk still on the open side? Isn't that what the whole Musk - Altman conflict is about?

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#178

Post by new_user_final »

andy_ppp wrote: post #61

How do the valuations of foundation model companies compete with them being firmly open sourced by Facebook and DeepSeek? It seems likely that building these models will not produce hundreds of billions in value given China and Facebook are giving them away largely for free.

It's pretty disgraceful to DeepSeek saying Facebook and China.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#179

Post by alternatex »

lugu wrote: post #150
wg0 wrote: post #140

In fact they are totally dismantling OpenAI. Most likely, without any intention on their part. LLMs have been more legitimate "blockchain" when most CIO magazines had these essays with "What's your blockchain strategy?" kind of stuffed material. AI bubble will burst and will burst hard. By end of 2026 at max.

I am not sure what you mean by AI bubble. Do you mean the valuation of some companies? Or course some won't do well in the future. In the meanty, a significant part of the population uses on it to accelerate their tasks (be it admin work, legal question, learning, getting inspiration). There is no way back. It feels like saying the video streaming bubble will burst in 2020. No. It is too valuable. But yes, some playe…

A bubble bursting does not mean the industry in the bubble ceases to exist. It means the market hype dies down and only the things that have actual value survive. When it comes to AI, realistically most of the hype is fluff, so calling it a bubble is fair.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#180

Post by alternatex »

aurareturn wrote: post #112
andy_ppp wrote: post #61

How do the valuations of foundation model companies compete with them being firmly open sourced by Facebook and DeepSeek? It seems likely that building these models will not produce hundreds of billions in value given China and Facebook are giving them away largely for free.

Postgres and MySql are free but hasn't stopped Oracle from making tens of billions each year in database subscriptions.

IMO it's harder to move away from Oracle DB than from Open AI. The type of businesses that rely on Oracle DB have all the characteristics of a "tech kidnap victim". Huge DB-driven projects, old bad code with few tests, and a profit margin low enough to not be able to fund a migration to a different DB.

I think businesses that rely on new AI models are very different.

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