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The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

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Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#171

Post by mistermann »

vivi_ wrote: post #86
nickpsecurity wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can save over ten million children from murder if you raise support to ban abortion. Cancer is horrible, too. People following Christ built many hospitals, orphanages, recovery programs, and places like Life Choices Memphis to do what we can for them. You show two, common views: God owes us something; no gratitude. God is a sovereign being who can do what He wants with His creation like you do with your possessio…

Why are you doing this? Friendly reminder that this is HackerNews; nobody is here (nor cares) to read your incoherent, unwelcome religious preach nor to argue religion - at all. That is not the topic of the article, there is nothing to do with religion in the article yet you feel it is your duty to solicit your irrelevant and frankly offensive religious beliefs onto others. I don't spew atheist thought unto christian…

> Friendly reminder that this is HackerNews; nobody is here (nor cares) to read your incoherent, unwelcome religious preach nor to argue religion - at all.

Be careful, Faith comes in many forms, and in many metaphysical frameworks (science, as one example).

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#172

Post by [deleted] »

WalterBright wrote: post #126
llm_trw wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think this could be because you have so many children? Anecdotally the more kids in a family the more neglected the child. I can't imagine having more than one child a decade and raising them well.

I was one of 5. I was not neglected. I am a horrible person, though, so there's that.

[deleted]

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#173

Post by navane »

llm_trw wrote: post #124
llm_nerd wrote: post #47

I have four children. I have never regretted it or wished for a different path. I know it isn't for everyone, but it absolutely was and is for me. At the same time I do think articles like this should be countered with the reality that many fathers aren't overwhelmed with waves of love or "surreal magnificence". With each of my children being born the primary emotions I could point to were dread and anxiety. The sudd…

Do you think this could be because you have so many children? Anecdotally the more kids in a family the more neglected the child. I can't imagine having more than one child a decade and raising them well.

I would argue the opposite. Worst are the only childs. There is just something off socially. Kids with only siblings that are 8+ years older have the same but less severe. You can pick them out from a mile away.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#174

Post by navane »

llm_trw wrote: post #139
beachtaxidriver wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point. But I think you may be taking it to extremes. A parent can snuggle multiple kids at once, read to multiple kids at once, take multiple kids to the zoo at once, etc. Moreover siblings have their own rich relationships. Having closely spaced siblings is pretty normal.

In the west in the year of our lord 1955. And in the year of our lord 2025 it's normal not to have kids in the west. In most of the rest of the world neither of those things were normal. Which is the point. The west is weird when it comes to raising children and has been uniquely bad at it for over 80 years which happens to be living memory for pretty much everyone on here.

Having closed spaced siblings was normal in the entire world forever until a couple decades ago. There wasn't even birth control.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#175

Post by DAGdug »

rangestransform wrote: post #164
DAGdug wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ And as children get viewed as a selfish luxury” I never quite understood this. Who exactly will pay into social security to benefit the next crop of retirees that seem to think it’s selfish to have kids?

Immigrants, even better that their source country paid for their natal care and education rather than us

That’s fine, but if the immigrants move from the developing to the developed world, that incurs a massive increase in their carbon footprint.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#176

Post by lwhalen »

mistermann wrote: post #167
lwhalen wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are backing into a very common fallacy, Pascal's Wager. "If not the christian god, why not the flying spaghetti monster" is what this usually boils down to. Anything that is presented without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

> You are backing into a very common fallacy, Pascal's Wager. Had I made an assertion (about the object level point of contention) or even offered relevant advice (I didn't), you would have a fine point. But I did not. You on the other hand, did make an assertion ( several , actually). Have you some more Normative Memetic Rhetoric (framed as Good Faith Critical Thinking) for me? And also: I did make an assertion, and…

You're parsing semantics rather than engaging with the core point. When I say something "can be dismissed," I mean that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof lies with those making supernatural claims, not with those rejecting them. You seem to be suggesting there's some deep irony or inconsistency in my position, but pointing out logical flaws in religious reasoning isn't the same as making unsupported assertions about the supernatural. And yes, I consciously chose to focus on the most relevant parts of your argument rather than chase every tangential point.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#177

Post by rootusrootus »

llm_nerd wrote: post #154
baxtr wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100%. People say it’s the cost. But what’s way worse is the effort and time you need to spend for every child. A normal couple, most often with both having to work, will be at their limits to provide for more than 1 child - constantly. A couple can’t replace the village unless they have tons of money.

I am lucky that I do consulting through my own company, setting my own schedule and availability. It would be impossible otherwise. Just as one small example, daycares/schools will call for you to pickup your kid -- blowing up your day -- at the slightest indication of illness. With four kids going to school, this means two to six+ times a month your day is going to be completely blown up at any moment. I'm not compl…

I remember the feeling of relief when my kids left daycare for the last time (I just have two, though). Partly because the massive reduction in cost, and partly because of the ease in scheduling my day. And it's just gotten better as they've grown a bit older. Now in middle school, they get themselves going in the morning and then get home in the afternoon just before 5pm. I've pretty much forgotten all the scheduling we had to do around nap times, daycare, etc.

I got lucky in a sense, when covid came along and sent me home permanently, it makes dealing with kids so much simpler. My wife and I both work from home now, and schedules are a breeze.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#178

Post by bearincar »

The_Colonel wrote: post #100
selectodude wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the reasons birthrates have plummeted in the West, and sentiments about having children have dropped, is that we have no "village", so to speak. Having children is not only an astronomical expense -- every single element of life is dramatically more expensive, made much worse with the housing crisis occurring in many Western nations -- a couple is often entirely on their own. There are no respites or breaks.…

> When you’re poor, it’s not changing what you can do with your life. You were never able to go to dinner or on vacation. When you're poor and child-less, you can still sleep in on weekends, watch Netflix/game all day/night or whatever other (cheap) hobby you have. It's even possible to do a decent amount of travelling on a very tight budget these days (low-cost airlines, couchsurfing...). All things considered, toda…

[dead]

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#179

Post by ricksunny »

mr_mitm wrote: post #9

Is it like this for everyone? I sometimes wonder how large the number of cases is where the parent does not feel like that at all but refrains from sharing it due to societal expectations and fear of being judged. It would introduce a bias regarding these stories.

I'm also very concerned about self-selection bias for the positive stories like this. Ideal would be an aggregate of fathers anonymously reporting satisfaction vs those reporting dissatisfaction with their choice of having kids , and then (male) non-fathers reporting satisfaction vs dissatisfaction with having kids.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#180

Post by cbruns »

dgfitz wrote: post #168
The_Colonel wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When are they bonding? All that time in between the breastfeeding? Somehow, this question does not compute for me (as a father of a breast-fed 8-month-old baby).

All that time, huh? First kid?

I have a child who is about to turn three who was breastfed. The notion of being aloof until now is unfathomable to me.
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