Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When you actually read what these pop-ups says, then you understand why they are there, and why the problem with the laws isn't that it's annoying, but that it is not much more restrictive. Worse, people (including on HN) actively blaming the EU for it. It’s like having a law mandating people are informed when there’s poison in their drink, then seeing people complain about the warning labels everywhere. The label…
> Worse, people (including on HN) actively blaming the EU for it. The EU is exactly to blame for it. The activity isn't illegal, and the EU didn't make it illegal. What the *EU did* was make it so that companies engaging in that legal activity now had to disclose it in some way, and thee cookie popups are the best way to do that. It's ridiculous to try and say the EU isn't to blame when they introduced and approved t…
Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
171–180 of 211 posts
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Besides cookies, there are tracking methods based on fingerprinting, IP and so on. None of them are permitted without explicit consent. This means that a site may not load resources from a third-party server without consent, since the request itself reveals enough information for fingerprinting and tracking. Tracking is plainly not permitted without consent.
> Tracking is plainly not permitted without consent. According to some poorly thought out law in certain territories, sure. In practice, however, there is no technical mechanism by which users, or anyone else for that matter, can detect whether they're being tracked or consent to it. There are browser extensions conscious users can install to block certain browser features, but these are not infallible, and they're c…
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#173Maybe stop doing stupid shit that will legally require you to inform users that you're about to sell/share everything you know about them to 3rd parties? I fail to understand companies that display page after page of cookies and tracking stuff for you to approve don't see the issue with their actions or the insanity of "allow us to share data with our 1500 partners". Does no one in these business look at this and go:…
> When you actually read what these pop-ups says, then you understand why they are there, and why the problem with the laws isn't that it's annoying, but that it is not much more restrictive. Worse, people (including on HN) actively blaming the EU for it. It’s like having a law mandating people are informed when there’s poison in their drink, then seeing people complain about the warning labels everywhere. The label…
Why does the European Parliament[0] and virtually[1] every EU website[2] feel the need to poison drinks?
> The label isn’t the problem!
The label is useless. See also, California's Prop 65: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_65_list...
1: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/portal/en
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Worse, people (including on HN) actively blaming the EU for it. The EU is exactly to blame for it. The activity isn't illegal, and the EU didn't make it illegal. What the *EU did* was make it so that companies engaging in that legal activity now had to disclose it in some way, and thee cookie popups are the best way to do that. It's ridiculous to try and say the EU isn't to blame when they introduced and approved t…
> and thee cookie popups are the best way to do that. No, the best way to do it is not invade people’s privacy. You can have ads without targeting (we did it forever before the internet) and you do not need cookie warnings if your cookies aren’t invasive. https://commission.europa.eu/resources-partners/europa-web-g... > The activity isn't illegal, and the EU didn't make it illegal. Indeed that is a shame. If only.
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and thee cookie popups are the best way to do that. No, the best way to do it is not invade people’s privacy. You can have ads without targeting (we did it forever before the internet) and you do not need cookie warnings if your cookies aren’t invasive. https://commission.europa.eu/resources-partners/europa-web-g... > The activity isn't illegal, and the EU didn't make it illegal. Indeed that is a shame. If only.
You do realize the (Official EU) website you linked to has a cookie banner, right?
> Use of the cookie consent kit is mandatory on each page of the DGs and executive agencies-owned websites, regardless of the cookies used.
I really wish people made a minimum of effort to engage in good faith. It took you longer to post your comment than it would’ve taken to read that notice.
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do realize the (Official EU) website you linked to has a cookie banner, right?
That is addressed right at the top of the page on a prominent explanatory banner with a blocky information icon : > Use of the cookie consent kit is mandatory on each page of the DGs and executive agencies-owned websites, regardless of the cookies used. I really wish people made a minimum of effort to engage in good faith. It took you longer to post your comment than it would’ve taken to read that notice.
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just got a banner from that EU website. Clearly they think it necessary, and they're not a business.
That is explained right at the top of the page : > Use of the cookie consent kit is mandatory on each page of the DGs and executive agencies-owned websites, regardless of the cookies used. Let’s please engage in good-faith conversation. If you don’t read a prominent explanatory banner with a blocky information icon at the top of an explanatory page, I don’t know what to tell you.
> Don’t invade user’s privacy and you don’t need cookie banners.
But when it's pointed out all EU websites use cookie banners, you shift goalposts and pretend that others are engaging in bad faith.
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No, the best way to do it is not invade people’s privacy. You can have ads without targeting You are deliberately missing the point and shifting the goalposts. You're talking about asking a business voluntarily not engage in lucrative legal business activities. Why would they do that? There are so many more important things business should voluntarily abstain from by that reasoning. No, as long as the behavior rema…
> You're talking about asking a business voluntarily not engage in lucrative legal business activities. Why would they do that? It is baffling that you can make that claim without realising your mistake. Yes indeed, why would businesses do that voluntarily? The answer is they aren’t doing it voluntarily, they are forced by law . In other words, the EU has made the practice illegal. Specifically, it is illegal to enga…
I'm not making any mistake. You continue to make the mistake to blame the businesses doing *legal* activities and complying with the *EU Regulation* that dictates the cookie popups.
> The answer is they aren’t doing it voluntarily,
They are not abstaining from legal behavior that makes them money, like literally every other business in acceptance.
Which means they are not doing anything remarkable, yet you are remarking on it. Why?
> In other words, the EU has made the practice illegal.
Not exactly. The EU has very specifically made the practice legal, but with regulations.
You're doing the equivalent of blaming tobacco companies for including graphic warnings on their packaging as is the case in some countries, when it's not them doing it voluntarily, it's a result of those governments imposing it.
> Specifically, it is illegal to engage in that data collection without consent.
Exactly. The *EU* regulated that informed consent is required, requiring some kind of popup to the user.
So, those companies are engaging in an explicitly legal practice, and doing so in the way the *EU* forces them to do so. So EU gets the blame.
> Let’s take tobacco warning labels as another example. Governments decided that tobacco companies have to print large warnings on cigarette packs. They didn’t make it illegal to sell tobacco, but if you want to do it you have to include those labels.
I genuinely typed my analogy above before I read this part of your reply. Amazing.
> Do you also blame governments for mandating those warning labels
YES!
Those warnings only exist because the governments are imposing them as a requirement.
Seriously, what's not to get here? If we follow your reasoning on the popups, to be consistent you would blame the tobacco companies for those warnings existing.
> simply because you misunderstood an argument.
What is it you think I've misunderstood? What do you think I think your position is as opposed to what it actually is? I'm certain I haven't misunderstood a thing.
What is the subject of the blame you were implicitly referring to in your first comment where you say "Worse, people (including on HN) actively blaming the EU for it."
What is the 'it' your refer to, if not the cookie popups?
> My position has remained consistent
Yes, your position is that the popups are not to be credited to the EU, which is absolutely wrong. They only exist because the EU dictates they need to for companies engaging in a specific legal activity.
You say in your first post "The label isn’t the problem! ", but that's the topic of discussion, that's the subject of the blame we are debating how to assign.
The issue of companies data collection and distribution practices are worth discussing, any any illegal activity needs to be dealt with. But that isn't relevant to who gets the blame/credit for the popups.
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Worse, people (including on HN) actively blaming the EU for it. The EU is exactly to blame for it. The activity isn't illegal, and the EU didn't make it illegal. What the *EU did* was make it so that companies engaging in that legal activity now had to disclose it in some way, and thee cookie popups are the best way to do that. It's ridiculous to try and say the EU isn't to blame when they introduced and approved t…
It is in fact illegal until the user opts into it. The company has to assume no as an answer until then.
Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don’t know if you are trolling or so misinformed Neither, you just somehow misinterpreted my comment. > The UK and EU do limit those activities. They remain entirely legal providing you get explicit opt-in consent. The point is that they do not limit them sufficiently, clearly. People who complain about the popups want to blame the businesses, but the business are doing in compliance with the law. That's the poin…
> The point is that they do not limit them sufficiently, clearly. I agree. The law should’ve been stronger. But we work now with the hand we have. > People who complain about the popups want to blame the businesses Not in my experience. There’s a split between people blaming the business and blaming the EU. > but the business are doing in compliance with the law. Most aren’t. The GDPR says explicitly that withdrawing…
I mainly just see Europeans defending it as not the EU, and I see that as patriotism and not an argument from merit. I have to see it that way because blaming the businesses for engaging in a legal activity and doing something mandated by regulation is crazy to me.
> Most aren’t. The GDPR says explicitly that withdrawing consent must be at least as easy as giving it. Yet most popular websites make it incredibly simple to accept but obtuse to refuse.
Most popups have two buttons, accept or reject. It doesn't really get simpler than that.