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Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

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Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#171

Post by _akhe »

erikerikson wrote: post #146
_akhe wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really you've never seen a comment of yours bounce around negative and positive on polarizing issues? It's kinda cool to see, makes this platform feel more solid than others. > celebrity loyalty You must have missed that meme https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/477/624/072... It was in response to the insufferable worship happening in comment sections everywhere. I wonder how much he was paying for PR ea…

I have seen mine be down voted at times and then later up voted but not in a responsive sense. Have I missed a feature or maybe you're using an outside reader? Regardless, I've only noticed for my own account. Perhaps you own both accounts? I completely miss all the memes as a rule, thanks for sharing.

I posted the parent comment. Referring to the parent comment of MisterDizzy's.

I only have 1 account, though I probably should create a burner for certain topics... it seems that just 1 bad take here can destroy a career. Can't wait til this authoritarian phase is over, just want to share opinions again and it not matter that much.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#172

Post by erikerikson »

_akhe wrote: post #171
erikerikson wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen mine be down voted at times and then later up voted but not in a responsive sense. Have I missed a feature or maybe you're using an outside reader? Regardless, I've only noticed for my own account. Perhaps you own both accounts? I completely miss all the memes as a rule, thanks for sharing.

I posted the parent comment. Referring to the parent comment of MisterDizzy's. I only have 1 account, though I probably should create a burner for certain topics... it seems that just 1 bad take here can destroy a career. Can't wait til this authoritarian phase is over, just want to share opinions again and it not matter that much.

Thanks for clearing up my confusion, sorry for it.

Turning otherwise intelligent people against one another is an old and battle tested control and mitigation strategy but yeah, it feels bad. Turns out nothing inherently keeps us from just doing better.

May have to start a company though.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#173

Post by lolc »

danaris wrote: post #164
lolc wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I understood it went down for the CEO: 1. Made optimistic claims about future product. 2. Some of the people tasked with implementation disagreed about optimistic claim. 3. Those people got fired for underperforming. 4. All people on the team tasked with implementation agree with optimistic claim. 5. Doubled down on the promise. Repeat every year. I can't see how a CEO could be blamed in this scenario, as cle…

Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target, lest it be mistaken for, and contribute to, that which it intends to criticize. See also: Poe's Law. Unless you include some clear indicator that you are being sarcastic, posts like this will be seen as fully sincere by many, many people.

True. Sometimes the disconnect bothers me more, sometimes less. There's the hilarity of having fanboys agree with me, which happens sometimes when Tesla's on the menu.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#174

Post by w0m »

adrr wrote: post #63
w0m wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same. at least we got in before the price jumped? We don't even have a hope as the new MCU doesn't even support getting backported to our car even if we were willing to pay for it.

Pretty sure it cost me more than the $2500 I paid. I tried smart summon one day. Instead of backing out of the space, it just ran forward up the curb on to the sidewalk. Couple years later the left strut failed costing me $2k.

RIP. I haven't had any issues like that yet; but I've also barely used it out of that exact fear.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#175

Post by tyree731 »

itsoktocry wrote: post #159
tyree731 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree with both claims. Fraud of a sufficient degree causes harm at a scale that is equivalent (in economic terms at least) to the consequences of murder. And jail time absolutely speaks to wealthy people, given the amount of money and effort wealthy people will spend defending themselves to avoid it.

> Fraud of a sufficient degree causes harm at a scale that is equivalent (in economic terms at least) to the consequences of murder. This is ridiculous, practically and morally. Someone losing their life is far worse than a billion people being defrauded of $10 each, regardless of how the economists decide to value a human.

Disagree. First, it wouldn’t be $10 split evenly amongst a billion people, some people would end up losing significantly more than others. Second, we can’t speak to the real world consequences of massive fraud in this particular case yet, but in the case of the Bernie Madoff fraud, multiple people are known to have killed themselves as a result of their loss, so we can only assume similar outcomes here.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#176

Post by Sparyjerry »

_akhe wrote: post #122
snarf21 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all need to remember Musk wasn't the founder. He was an early investor that forced the founders out. We can argue about whether the founders would have been more/less successful but he didn't found Tesla. [ https://www.theverge.com/23815634/tesla-elon-musk-origin-fou... ]

Elon "take-n-tank" Musk the brand destroyer lol I have an even funnier one for you: That viral video of when he was bald and bought that very expensive McLaren... "It's the highlight of my life" he said shortly before totaling the car with no insurance. "He's a genius!"

I'm always curious what caused you and other to hate Elon so much? I think when he bought Twitter and unbanned some conservatives?

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#177

Post by Sparyjerry »

api wrote: post #64
deegles wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could have been avoided just by calling it "Partial Self Driving" and then everything would be above board.

It's advanced cruise control, basically, and if advertised as such it'd be great.

That was auto-pilot. FSD literally does what it says, if the government didn't require you to be attentive you wouldn't have to be.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#178

Post by Sparyjerry »

dragonwriter wrote: post #97
throwtappedmac wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Martha Stewart went to jail for insider trading idk how similar that is. With OTA updates still could claim this could happen. This imo is less than both Theranos and insider trading like the FSD has disclaimers right? Unless the argument is Tesla is only valuable because of FSD and not best in class EV experience The pay package being declined by a Delaware court and now this couldnt have come at a worse tim…

> Unless the argument is Tesla is only valuable because of FSD That's not how fraud works. Fraud doesn't require that the false claim us the only source of value of the product, it only requires that the false claim is material to the decision to purchase the product at the price offered.

It's going to be hard to prove fraud when literally everywhere you buy it it said it is not currently available and gave no timeline to when you would receive it.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#179

Post by Sparyjerry »

chollida1 wrote: post #6

This is about defrauding people who bought a tesla, not investors. > In 2020, Musk told a crowd in Shanghai that he remains “confident” that Tesla will achieve “basic functionality for level five autonomy this year,” referring to the SAE’s rankings of autonomy. Tesla’s technology, in 2024, is still at level 2. This reminds me alot of the Thernos case where she tried to make the case not about fraud but about an overl…

We're actually seeing how much people can read into words too much. There was zero promise by Musk just some guesses and when you buy the car itself it has all sorts of lack of promises.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#180

Post by Sparyjerry »

windexh8er wrote: post #170
marcusverus wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an obvious difference between lying and being wrong. Theranos claimed to already have created their magic machine, which was a blatant lie. They intentionally misled investors by pretending to put samples into a fake testing machine, secretly removing the samples to test them in a lab elsewhere, then putting them back into the machine to make it look like the machine was doing the testing. That's careful, ca…

By this reasoning it would be OK for a car company to market a car with an automatic transmission, yet the clutch was still required to be used on gear changes at delivery. You paid a large premium for the automatic clutch as was marketed by the CEO of the company to be delivered "next year". This claim you bought into was now made over 8 years ago and what the CEO stated has still not been delivered. Your car now ha…

This doesn't seem fraudulent, FSD was an additional optional feature you didn't have to buy not a required featured. Then when you bought it there was plenty of disclaimer about how there is no timeline for release. So your claiming that because the CEO said something at random speech - that was technically correct anyways, that apparently that overrides all of the disclaimers you have to sign when actually buying the car?
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