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Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

nytimes.com

171–180 of 657 posts

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#171

Wouldn't GlobalFoundries (HQ in New York and supposedly on the "Trusted Foundry" list) have made more sense, since they fabricate chips for multiple different companies, where as Intel only makes them for Intel? Boosts a competitor, opens up fab capacity for all and moves the needle on the intentions behind the CHIPS act, all at once.

I think Intel wants to make chips for others as well...

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really a startup kinda business. It costs something like $10b to build a new fab.

Isn’t that what they said about rockets?

The equipment to manufacture rockets costs many orders of magnitude less than equipment for a FAB. It also does not get obsolete quickly.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#173

I understand why Intel is getting these, but would be nice to see this money go to companies that are still innovating and are somewhere in the US coalition/orbit (TSMC, Samsung, etc.)

Intel is still innovating though? What's with everyone acting like they aren't innovating just because they aren't the leading performance x86 chip manufacturer? They're still shrinking node sizes, they've entered the GPU market, they're opening up their fabs to also make chips for other companies...

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#174
post #79

Right now one of the biggest blockers in on-shoring semiconductor fab at any kind of reasonable price-point and timescale is the lack of a skilled workforce. This legislation has dual objectives: train new people to get into sophisticated manufacturing AND to build out the actual infrastructure itself. That almost guarantees it won't be the most efficient way to actually get these chips on American soil. Whether we l…

I imagine we’d have that skilled workforce if companies paid enough. I’m a former construction contractor who reinvented myself as a software developer. Each time I run into one of my former peers in the construction industry I hear the same complaints from them. “We can’t hire any good help.” Yet they are still paying the same non living wages that they have for 30 years.

The type of work does matter. If I had the choice between a low-pay office job and a low-pay physical labor job, many would pick the office.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#175
post #132

WRT to lack of a skilled workforce, here is an interesting anecdote. I remember back in the late 90's, Intel had to fire most line workers in their FABS, and hire people with Ph.D.'s in solid-state physics. I actually knew one of these people who were fired: She was our housecleaner. And--like the supper-smart garbage man of the Dilbert Cartoons, she was very smart. Smarter than me. I know because she helped me solve…

That's a silly anecdote and I have a hard time believing chip fab line workers are too much different from those in other types of high-tech (where I spent 15 years working on test automation & quality systems). Some smart folks, for sure, but almost zero roles required even actual engineering background. A lot of management had strong technical education, but the vast majority of line workers are just following simp…

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Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine we’d have that skilled workforce if companies paid enough. I’m a former construction contractor who reinvented myself as a software developer. Each time I run into one of my former peers in the construction industry I hear the same complaints from them. “We can’t hire any good help.” Yet they are still paying the same non living wages that they have for 30 years.

[flagged]

It really doesn't matter - show me a DEI scheme that has actually had success and didn't revert to saying "it's the funnel"

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really a startup kinda business. It costs something like $10b to build a new fab.

Isn’t that what they said about rockets?

Musk should have spent 44B on a chip company.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really a startup kinda business. It costs something like $10b to build a new fab.

Isn’t that what they said about rockets?

Rockets turned out to be expensive not because the technology demanded it, but because the companies were intentionally inefficient, e.g. it was actually fine to build a rocket in a tent with simple tools than to setup a massive clean room facility. This was fine because the government would hand them a blank check with a guaranteed profit percentage, and the handful of commercial customers would just swallow the cost.

However, it isn't as clear if the same applies to semiconductors, since even a bit of dust is indeed a serious problem for producing a chip where the transistors are much smaller than most dust. Until very recently there were no blank checks, every improvement required mostly private investment, so it's less likely that the inefficiencies are intentional.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You’re likely being downvoted for posting an opinion piece with zero supporting evidence.

Then the right response is, e.g.

“Do you have any evidence that the CHIPS act require DEI?”

Yes, see the relevant sections here: https://x.com/bonchieredstate/status/1766467529151557788?s=4...

“Do you have any evidence that DEI distributes outcomes to favored activist identities?”

A summary: https://youtu.be/n0fpeiFNWMY?si=eiCnRL0LX8RhOlxI

Happy to provide evidence from woke literature if you are interested in evidence of any aspect of how it works. They are pretty straightforward about it, but incredibly wordy.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#180
post #168

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

Intel can save a lot of money by getting rid of incompetent folks in higher management, closing a lot of projects/teams that do not add value, a lot of middle management, simplifying processes that slow down the teams that are actually doing job, changing culture where working 10hr/wk is not tolerated. They need to do some variation of what Elon did to twitter. I have seen many of these things first hand.

I agree - management cruft abounds in most large corps. The hard thing is you need a really skilled CEO to cut through all of it correctly.
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