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Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

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Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#171

Post by jongjong »

corry wrote: post #146
max_ wrote: post #112

This really makes me sad as an aspiring entrepreneur. What would be the use of starting a business if the government can arbitrarily block it from being acquired? I understand this happening in Europe but not America. I think America is going to lag behind in tech entrepreneurship just like Europe and I wonder what the next potential tech entrepreneurship hub will be.

Ummm. This seems like a huge overreaction. Do you think the founder of Figma -- which is still worth $B's, making him obscenely wealthy 'on paper' (but 'on paper' in a way that most wealth is counted) -- plus, he likely sold enough via secondaries during the later rounds to be set for life -- is bemoaning his career path? Furthermore, there's something like 20k M&A deals / yr completed in North America alone, the maj…

What I find most sad about entrepreneurship is that almost all the successful founders appear to have been 'chosen' by a famous VC or investor. It's almost like what you do doesn't really matter. I've seen some 'chosen entrepreneurs' keep failing and they keep getting second, third, fourth chances and eventually succeed. Being chosen seems to be the most important element for success. But how to become chosen? It seems so random, in a world of 8 billion people, you need to be hand-picked by one of maybe 100 people... And the criteria is weird; basically they need to like you and for that to happen, you basically need to remind them of a young version of themselves... Which is not something you can control.

If you're very different, none of the famous investors will like you (that's assuming they even learn about your existence) and your chances in this industry will be very bad.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#172

Post by jen20 »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #53
dkyc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except outlawing acquisitions by larger tech companies will absolutely reduce funding and incentives to start companies, and result in less products, less companies, and less competition.

If your only goal in founding a company is to get acquired, you haven't made a company; you've made a product, and probably not a profitable one. We should be encouraging way more medium-sized companies, that operate sustainable business models, make money for their founders and employees, and aren't subsidized by cheap money. I think if startups actually had to sustain themselves we'd see a lot less grift and waste…

I don’t disagree with the notion that there should be more medium sized, self sustaining (“lifestyle?”) companies, but such statements are rarely if ever followed up with _why_ this is a desirable outcome for everyone involved.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#173

Post by pier25 »

This is good news for Figma. They make amazing products and the last thing they need is the Adobe enshitification.

Adobe needs to get their shit together. 15 years ago they were universally loved and now everyone hates them. Their software is super bloated and Creative Cloud runs so much crap in the background even when you're not running any Adobe app and even when you've disabled its background apps in macOS.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#175

Post by andybak »

bilekas wrote: post #148
madeofpalk wrote: post #6

Excellent news. I think there should be more products, more companies, and more competition. Adobe just buying up it's competition will only ever directly hurt consumers. See also, "Adobe says the FTC is looking into its subscription cancellation practices." https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/15/24003532/adobe-says-the-...

I agree to be honest, I do find it refreshing too that they're both Willing to part ways instead of trying to manipulate the system. I don't think this could just customers but even the companies themselves I don't see a loss.

Maybe they failed to find a way round the rules? That seems more likely than a spontaneous desire to "do the right thing".

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#176

Post by airstrike »

evrydayhustling wrote: post #138
airstrike wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A bureaucrat will decide if you can exit the way you want to. It's not up to the bureaucrat but to the courts. The FTC doesn't "approve" or "reject" deals--it can just take legal action to try to stop a deal, but that still gets adjudicated either in a federal court or in an FTC administrative law court to a judge which is appointed independently. https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/merger-review https://www.ftc.gov/le…

Adding a legal battle with the FTC to the cost of any acquisition can chill and kill otherwise obvious deals, and or sap value out of those that push through. FWIW, I think there are good reasons to limit tech consolidation, including this one. But anyone should realize that it will reshape the industry in unpredictable ways, including some that harm "real" consumers and builders.

But anti-trust isn't being invented now. It's always existed. Companies already factor in anti-trust risk when doing M&A—it's just hard to quantify the expected value of that risk

If anything, IMHO, we've been too lenient with anti-trust in Tech in particular over the past 5-10 years. This just dials things back a little, and makes it so that "hard to quantify" risk is a little more likely than it was before, and certainly a little more likely than zero

I don't think Adobe / Figma specifically is an "otherwise obvious deal" precisely because it has such obvious anti-trust risk. The fact that this merger was even announced is all the proof I need that we were being too lenient. Figma can still sell to any number of huge Tech companies

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#177

Post by popcorncowboy »

bilekas wrote: post #148
madeofpalk wrote: post #6

Excellent news. I think there should be more products, more companies, and more competition. Adobe just buying up it's competition will only ever directly hurt consumers. See also, "Adobe says the FTC is looking into its subscription cancellation practices." https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/15/24003532/adobe-says-the-...

I agree to be honest, I do find it refreshing too that they're both Willing to part ways instead of trying to manipulate the system. I don't think this could just customers but even the companies themselves I don't see a loss.

This genuinely made me laugh thank you. But no, they're not refreshingly "willing to part ways", just that their extensive legal teams assessed every possible angle to force this through and the big chairs made a call that proceeding in the face of such harsh opposition was going to be too costly.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#178

Post by ethanbond »

evrydayhustling wrote: post #138
airstrike wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A bureaucrat will decide if you can exit the way you want to. It's not up to the bureaucrat but to the courts. The FTC doesn't "approve" or "reject" deals--it can just take legal action to try to stop a deal, but that still gets adjudicated either in a federal court or in an FTC administrative law court to a judge which is appointed independently. https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/merger-review https://www.ftc.gov/le…

Adding a legal battle with the FTC to the cost of any acquisition can chill and kill otherwise obvious deals, and or sap value out of those that push through. FWIW, I think there are good reasons to limit tech consolidation, including this one. But anyone should realize that it will reshape the industry in unpredictable ways, including some that harm "real" consumers and builders.

What’s net new about this? It has been the case for decades that if you try to sell to the only major competitor that it could be blocked under antitrust.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#179

Post by Lutger »

matthewowen wrote: post #105
whatisthiseven wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fine if no one starts vampiric companies that dump free services on the public destroying the perceived value of software for the purpose of a fast unicorn exit. Of course, these companies always look to advertising for funding so they are obtrusive. Unless you are thinking of real companies that would be affected by this ban? Retail stores don't care about this ban. Companies that sell real products wou…

But Figma isn’t a vampiric company dumping free services for the purpose of a fast exit. It’s been around for over a decade and charges _more_ for its principal product than Adobe charges for comparable products. So by your own definition, real companies are affected by this!

I didn't know Figma was going bankrupt, is it?

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#180

Post by krisoft »

dkyc wrote: post #133
sp332 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would Figma be disruptive or weakening tech giants if their plan is to be acquired by them?

Clearly Figma is providing a valuable product to the market. In part visible here by how people celebrate this decision. But people are celebrating Figma's continued independence without understanding that without the possibility of being acquired for a large amount of money, the funding and incentive situation that resulted in the beloved independent Figma wouldn't exist. This is not as much about Figma, which is bi…

> beloved independent Figma wouldn't exist.

Are you saying that the business of "we make a thing and we ask for money from our users for said thing" model cannot work?

> Why would anyone go worth at a small company for equity if there's no chance to get liquidity? Why would investors invest?

Presumably because they hope the company become successful and it sells many licences and they get a share from that pile of money.

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