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European DSA Recipients of Services Report

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Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#171

Post by nottorp »

dang wrote: post #149
nottorp wrote: post #34

> Without prejudice to further consideration of the legal characterisation, Apple views each version of the App Store as a distinct online platform under the DSA, and only the iOS App Store may qualify as a VLOP. LOL LMAO ROFL. I really hope there is some EU directive that this is breaking so they can be fined just for being asses.

Can you please make your substantive points thoughtfully? We're trying to avoid shallow flamewars here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

This is a pointless gesture on part of apple. They know their artificial separation of stores won't fly with the EU but they still have to peacock around and pretend that they will comply because of their infinite generosity.

I suppose HN frowns upon this, but I find these attempts to save face ridiculous.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#172

Post by madsbuch »

sib wrote: post #100
madsbuch wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? A big part of governance is to ensure individual freedom: Minimum salary, unions, etc. The comment seems to be perfectly congruent. (Though you have to accept a more ... European world view)

Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom. If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I can't. If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I can't. As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero."

In Denmark we have no mandated minimum salary and no mandated unions. You are free to work for 1cent an hour, if you want.

However, we do have the structures to balance power asymmetries. Most people are a part of a union and we do have a de-facto minimum salary (at around 20 USD).

Would that be freedom enough for you?

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#173

Post by thoughtpalette »

pjc50 wrote: post #170
thoughtpalette wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Class action suit against Nvidia for effectively removing local Gamestream from the Shield. Mine's a $200 brick now. [0]: https://www.classaction.org/news/nvidia-hit-with-class-actio...

I'm sad about this, because I use Moonlight for the same purpose, and there doesn't seem to be any good reason for this? It's just removing a feature.

They're moving to streaming your "Connected Apps" (Steam, EA, etc) through their cloud stream service now.

I'm mad since I only bought the Shield in September for the sole purpose of local desktop streaming.

I played around with Moonlight for about 15 minutes but have yet to get it work the same. I do love there's an open source solution but I'll probably be going with an AMD build for the first time in my life instead of Intel/NVidia because of this.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#174

Post by sib »

Spivak wrote: post #110
sib wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom. If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I can't. If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I can't. As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero."

You're describing freedom as in anarchy, the parent is describing freedom as in liberty. I am more free and able to use the software I want when the government forces Apple to unlock their devices even though it makes Apple less free. I am more free to travel when everyone follows the rules of the road even though I give up some autonomy to do so. I am more free to use wireless networks because everyone has to stick…

Anarchy would be without laws.

I am describing liberty.

There are people whose work is worth less than $20 / hour. If there is a minimum wage, those people are not able to work. So they don't have the freedom to work if they want to.

You are free to buy a phone from someone else if you don't like Apple's terms. Everyone at Apple is not forced to do labor to provide you something that they don't want to provide.

We have what are called "right-to-work" states which means that people in those states are not forced to join unions in those states. In other states, if there is a union at a particular workplace, employees are forced to join it, even if they do not want to.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#175

Post by sib »

madsbuch wrote: post #172
sib wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom. If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I can't. If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I can't. As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero."

In Denmark we have no mandated minimum salary and no mandated unions. You are free to work for 1cent an hour, if you want. However, we do have the structures to balance power asymmetries. Most people are a part of a union and we do have a de-facto minimum salary (at around 20 USD). Would that be freedom enough for you?

Sounds great. I've been to Denmark a number of times. Nice place :)

As long as there's no requirement to join a union it's cool if they exist.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#176

Post by dang »

nottorp wrote: post #171
dang wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please make your substantive points thoughtfully? We're trying to avoid shallow flamewars here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

This is a pointless gesture on part of apple. They know their artificial separation of stores won't fly with the EU but they still have to peacock around and pretend that they will comply because of their infinite generosity. I suppose HN frowns upon this, but I find these attempts to save face ridiculous.

You've got the beginning of a good comment here:

> This is a pointless gesture on part of apple. They know their artificial separation of stores won't fly with the EU

but it starts to go off the rails again with this:

> they still have to peacock around and pretend that they will comply because of their infinite generosity.

That's not as bad as your GP comment but it's still veering into snark and lashing-out, which is the thing that most destroys curious conversation. It's the latter we're trying for here. If you completed that sentence more thoughtfully, we'd have an example of a good post advocating your view.

It's in your interest to do that, too, because it will make your arguments stronger and your comments more persuasive. The benefit of the snark-and-lashing-out thing is a short lived feeling (for you and whichever readers already agree with you); the benefit of the curious-conversation thing is much higher in the long run.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#177

Post by Spivak »

sib wrote: post #174
Spivak wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing freedom as in anarchy, the parent is describing freedom as in liberty. I am more free and able to use the software I want when the government forces Apple to unlock their devices even though it makes Apple less free. I am more free to travel when everyone follows the rules of the road even though I give up some autonomy to do so. I am more free to use wireless networks because everyone has to stick…

Anarchy would be without laws. I am describing liberty. There are people whose work is worth less than $20 / hour. If there is a minimum wage, those people are not able to work. So they don't have the freedom to work if they want to. You are free to buy a phone from someone else if you don't like Apple's terms. Everyone at Apple is not forced to do labor to provide you something that they don't want to provide. We ha…

> Anarchy would be without laws.

And you don't see laws as antithetical to individual freedom? Anyone bound by a law by definition is less free.

Paying someone less than what is required for them to live in the area they work reduces my individual freedom because I end up forced to pay the cost of your laborer through social welfare programs. When you buy anything including labor you pay for its cost not its value to you.

Is requiring food be safe to eat forcing someone to do labor they don't want to provide?

If you don't like that a workplace has a union you're free work somewhere else. Unionized workplaces aren't forced to provide you the benefits of collective bargaining without joining.

Liberty is way more complicated than you're making it and isn't fewer restrictions on individuals --> more feee.

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