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More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#171

Post by Version467 »

kello wrote: post #153

Over here in Germany they have well-established apprenticeship programs for many more jobs than in the US. There are apprenticeships for software developers, for bankers, for "Bürokauffrau/Bürokaufmanm" (office clerks/administrators), for media work, for all sorts of medical jobs, and so on. You name it, and there is probably an "Ausbildung" (apprenticeship) for it here. The apprenticeship programs are still somewhat…

I wish we would try to bring the german apprenticeship program back to its former glory. It's such a shame that we started expecting university degrees for more and more jobs just to appear more compatible with the international job market.

The german apprenticeship program was a fantastic (and unique) feature of the german economy. Not every job needs a bachelors degree. Quite the opposite actually. Many positions that hire fresh university graduates could fill the position much better with well trained people who already have lots of hands on experience. Instead we have tons of people with bachelors degrees that basically need to be trained from scratch because the education they got was waaayy too theoretical.

Unfortunately the apprenticeship program is now far less prestigious than a bachelors degree (which is also heavily reflected in pay). So anyone who can go to university won't choose an apprenticeship.

Such a wasted opportunity.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#172

Post by ryan93 »

azinman2 wrote: post #40
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

Id be surprised if 5% of college students "grow their souls" weirdly clueless thing to write. Not hard to find out that most people get business, psych and econ degrees. And even english or history majors half ass it just to get through.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#173

Post by Avshalom »

onepointsixC wrote: post #139
alsaaro wrote: post #88

As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving wor…

It shouldn't be unrealistically romanticized, but with University tuitions only reaching ever higher, much faster than inflation what other good solution is there for Young Adults to get a career and secure their financial future? These options being elevated precisely because of out of control student debt and universities which face zero consequences to financially crippling their pupils.

well we made university free in New Mexico, and it's free or cheap in a lot of other places.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#174

Post by gnicholas »

xyzelement wrote: post #92

A few posts in this thread talk about the signaling value of college and I wanted to share a thought on that. When's the last time you saw someone wear a suit? For me, most people I see in suits now days are town car drivers. Because that's who needs to signal something (reliability?) to me in a low context environment. People stopped wearing suits at work, even for interviews, because the signaling value of a suit i…

There are some industries where suits are still regularly worn, though even in these fields (law, banking) it is less common than before. In Silicon Valley, lawyers only wear suits when going to court or to depositions.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#175

Post by jabroni_salad »

analog31 wrote: post #154
etothepii wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is the only profession I know of where there are many senior leaders in their forties without a degree.

Traditionally, how did they get in? Did they come up through sales, or through family businesses?

There are multiple paths and different designations you need to earn to work them. The more letters you can get after your name, the better. So you don't need a degree, but there is a moat to cross.

Agencies: oops, all sales!

Claims Adjustment: small claims to bigger claims. These are usually independent outfits that service many carriers for their geographic area. In some jurisdictions you can get hired with no experience but you will earn more if you have any kind of background in accounting or appraisal.

Quote & Bind | CSR >> assistant underwriter >> underwriter >> sr. underwriter. These are your big corpo jobs at an operations center.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#176

Post by lotsofpulp »

Ekaros wrote: post #148
vasco wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have something to do with it in the sense that many people practice them and they need to practice them growing up in order to be able to do it as a job. You also cannot discount the impact of athletics programs on national defense and the programs that were done by multiple presidents to keep people active and healthy. Sports have this quality among cultural activities that they tend to improve your body and re…

But why connect it to education? Why not make it general program for all ages? Why not encourage community run programs for teams consisting for example company workers, or local neighbourhood teams? The education ends very quickly and it is the older than that people who could really benefit from these activities.

They serve as a decent socioeconomic filter since many sports require the parents of the player to be of at least certain economic means.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#177

Post by [deleted] »

VLM wrote: post #80
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

> this completely cripples them in the future when they could otherwise have had great careers > It's good that students are turning away now Conspiracy theory: the powers that be, are not dumb, they know this, and rely in this to increase their stability by eliminating the competition and the ambitious. Scared people make bad decisions; their replacement for neutering-via-college is not likely to be as easy to deal…

[deleted]

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#178

Post by gnicholas »

Relevant book: The Case Against Education https://www.amazon.com/Case-against-Education-System-Waste/d...

Written by an economics professor, this book argues that much of the value of education is signaling, and that we greatly over-school many kids.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#179

Post by jt2190 »

> Today, colleges and universities enroll about 15 million undergraduate students, while companies employ about 800,000 apprentices. In the past decade, college enrollment has declined by about 15%, while the number of apprentices has increased by more than 50%, according to federal data and Robert Lerman, a labor economist at the Urban Institute and co-founder of Apprenticeships for America.

So in the last decade:

          Apprentices   Undergraduates
    2013      400,000      ~17,600,000
    2023     ~800,000       15,000,000
Edit: Looking at these rough numbers, there are 2.2 million people unaccounted for, far more than increased the ranks of Apprentices. Where did they go if not into Apprenticeships?
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