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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#171

Post by PaulHoule »

latexr wrote: post #96
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the tr…

> Of all the trades, electricity is the one that I know enough about to supervise somebody. (e.g. I am baffled by plumbing) Curiously, we’re in opposite situations. I have a (very) basic understanding of electricity, just enough to change power outlets and the like. But in general I’m baffled by it because it’s a bunch of dangerous stuff I can’t see with values I don’t fully understand¹. Plumbing, on the other hand,…

I received a PhD in physics so I got a solid dose of electricity and electronics.

I did help teach an autotutorial class in physics for premeds which got me to do a little more with fluid mechanics than most people but the trouble I have with plumbing is finding documentation for the details.

For instance when it comes to sealing PVC pipes I have seen instructions that tell you to "refer to the documentation from the pipe manufacturer" which is not at all straightforward for pipes that have been there 20+ years.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#172

Post by londons_explore »

bityard wrote: post #149
londons_explore wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only need to be installed in specific places... But they ought to be installed for the whole house. You do want your refrigerator on one. What when your mom is putting a metal saucepan into the fridge of leftovers, knocks and smashes the lamp inside, and the AC lamp power supply kills her though the metal saucepan? What when a baby puts a fork into an electrical outlet in the living room? What when floodwater co…

Let know when GFCIs and AFCIs are robust enough against spurious tripping and I will readily install them everywhere. GFCIs are notorious for tripping on certain appliances like refrigerators and freezers, and can trip due to RFI from other devices in the house. AFCIs do not like anything with a brushed motor, especially power tools and sufficiently large vacuums. I have personally experienced all of these just in th…

European GFCI's are 30mA, and don't false trip. US GFCI's are 5mA, and frequenty false trip.

lots of info here[1]

TL;DR: The US regulations prevent small electrical faults into things like swimming pools from causing people to drown. The european regulations will stop you getting killed by electricity directly, but won't stop you drowning if you happen to be in a pool while touching some wiring.

[1]: https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/218700/why-are-usa-c...

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#173

Post by [deleted] »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the tr…

If you need to upgrade your service entrance, if it's within your means, go to 400A to future proof (EVs, HVAC and hot water heat pumps, induction stove, and other large loads all add up, along with colocated generation of some sort). Depending on your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and utility, they may require a licensed electrician to replace the raceway or similar entrance to the meter. 200A is satisfactory…

[deleted]

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#174

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #164
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pipes don't freeze immediately. A semi-decently insulated house will loose less than 10 degrees per day, so it would take a few days before pipes start freezing.

Cool! Most of the houses in areas of the US where pipes freeze are quite old, many have effectively no insulation (the one I currently rent has no insulation at all). If heat goes out, it'll reach outside temperature within a day. People here in Buffalo recently died because a blizzard took out electricity, homes lost heat, and they froze (mostly when they tried to get to the "warming shelter" locations and were trap…

yeah, but those houses aren't the ones that are getting electric heat. that's almost all only new construction. (and if you are in a house like this you'll gain a lot more by replacing the windows than the heat)

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#175

Post by londons_explore »

jxramos wrote: post #159
anikom15 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t even get me started on AFCIs. At least the behavior of GFCIs is well-defined. The AFCI thing is a money grab.

why's that, is there some guarantee they fail to live up to? Is there something probabilistic to them or something?

AFCI's are of dubious effectiveness at their purpose (preventing fires). They're kinda snake oil because each manufacturer won't tell you under what exact conditions they'll trip. Somehow the law in the USA now requires them on every circuit, although they aren't used at all in Europe (which has a higher voltage yet far fewer electrical deaths).

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#176

Post by sbradford26 »

encoderer wrote: post #79

It sounds like it was just a COVID-related delay during the height of the pandemic. I also own a home in Berkeley and had no trouble getting 2 quotes for a panel replacement, and work started less than a week after the first phone call. It cost $12k for the new 200 amp panel and 4 new outlets. Now, landscape contractors, that’s been a harder nut to crack.

That is pretty brutal on the cost. We live north of Boston is a decently high cost of living area but nowhere near California. I got the our main panel upgraded from 100 amp to 200 amp, the mast and meter socket replaced, and 4 new outlets in the basement for $2400 in 2021.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#177

Post by prottog »

commandlinefan wrote: post #133

I thought I wanted to be an electrician growing up in the 80's, but my parents steered me away from it into the then-booming programming field. It does seem like programmers are doing a lot better than electricians these days.

If you're a programmer who owns a home, there's a lot of electrician stuff you can do around the house. ;-)

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#178

Post by bluGill »

bombcar wrote: post #92
sbradford26 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah an induction range most likely wouldn't require any more power than a resistive range. The only caveat to that is that higher end ranges might have higher power draws due to having more burners and such and induction ranges tend to be the higher end. That being said it looks like most ranges require a 40 amp circuit now, while code now requires wiring a new range outlet for 50 amps even if you put a 40 amp break…

As an aside, for those watching from home - you can put LARGER connections downstream of smaller ones (50 amp outlet on a 40 amp breaker) because the worst case is your breaker will flip. You can put SMALLER outlets on a larger breaker (40 amp outlet on a 50 amp breaker) because the outlet is SUPPOSED to keep you from overloading it (and the outlet will actually be rated for more than the "plug size") The DANGER you…

Standard non-metallic 8 gauge wire is only allowed to handle 40 amps. If you want to put 50 amps to the outlet you need more expensive wire (most likely 6 gauge, but there are other forms of 8 gauge that are approved for 50 amps). Since most stoves only need 40 amps electricians will run non-metallic 8 gauge by default and put a 40 amp breaker on it - then since there isn't such a thing as a 40 amp outlet they have a 50 amp outlet on the other end.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#179

Post by petre »

kuschku wrote: post #47
danans wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power: > UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W > US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W That's incorrect. The service drop in the US is 220V. It gets stepped down at the main load center to 120V for most of the regular circuits. So it's more like 48000W service in US houses.

The service drop in EU/UK is 380V. The point stands.

400V between phases, 230V phase to neutral. Most homes have single phase though.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#180

Post by Avamander »

jxramos wrote: post #159
anikom15 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t even get me started on AFCIs. At least the behavior of GFCIs is well-defined. The AFCI thing is a money grab.

why's that, is there some guarantee they fail to live up to? Is there something probabilistic to them or something?

They highlight bad appliance design especially hard, while also being somewhat difficult to pinpoint due to the design of many electrical systems.

Arc detection is also basically somewhat complex RF processing, so there are multiple approaches to it and implementations vary.

Plus (detected) arcs are common with for example brushed motors.

Maybe there's something else the person you replied to would like to highlight, but I wouldn't call them a money grab, just made difficult due to some past choices.

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