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Remote work’s toll on cities

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Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#171

Post by autoexec »

koheripbal wrote: post #22

> cities must let developers convert office buildings into housing This is an Activist piece - not an Analysis piece. You cannot trust facts reported in an article that's advocating change. It cherry picks a number of facts in order to further the arguments.

> You cannot trust facts reported in an article that's advocating change.

There's zero reason why an article advocating for a change can't also contain trustworthy facts. I'm not saying this article is a good example of one, but I wouldn't follow "You cannot trust facts reported in an article that's advocating change." as a general rule. Pretty much every article advocating for a change is going to include facts, but that doesn't make them all untrustworthy. Advocating for something in an article doesn't require the author to ignore everything that doesn't support their viewpoint, or lying/misleading, or cherry-picking.

Identifying that an author is advocating for something should cause you to be on the look for out for those types of things (that's just critical thinking), but they shouldn't be assumed and the article or the facts it contains shouldn't be immediately dismissed as untrustworthy or wrong based on that assumption.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#172

Post by selectodude »

johnkpaul wrote: post #158
escapedmoose wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I managed to find a suburban area with restaurants, groceries, and shops within walking distance in the US and it is an amazing, life-changing thing. I am never ever ever ever ever leaving. US zoning laws need to change.

Where are you? This sounds like a magical place of unicorns and fairies. :-)

Most inner-ring streetcar suburbs of old major cities are like that. Nassau County in New York, the North Shore in Chicago, anything off the Green Line in Boston.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#173

Post by spritefs »

fundad wrote: post #164
spritefs wrote: post #149

I personally wouldn't have a problem living in a city like SF if crime and homeless were less common But since this is a literal nightmare in SF, being less "car dependent" or appeasing these whining activists is the least of my concern. I could give a shit less about "car dependency" if I have to worry about my own personal safety on a regular basis. Expecting people to put their own personal safety on the line to r…

Most people in SF have cars, most streets are lined with garage doors. There are many without cars but the city is designed for cars. If you’re ok with car dependency then the suburbs are more comfortable. If shopping and hooking-up aren’t as important than safety you are winning.

> Most people in SF have cars, most streets are lined with garage doors.

Ok. But what about cars getting broken into? Isn't that incredibly common?

If I hypothetically lived in SF, I definitely wouldn't bring a car just bc I don't want my catalytic converter getting stolen or the windows getting broken

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#174

Post by Swizec »

nemo44x wrote: post #86
Swizec wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 2 existing models are a relic of a low technology past: suburbia with long car commutes to downtown, and dense cities built around facilitating mass daily movement to the office through subway/public transportation I’ve been traveling Europe this month and visited several towns and cities both large and small. From tiny villages of a few hundred to 4,000,000+ people monsters. One thing that struck me as vastly…

If you travel or stay long enough you'll find there's plenty of bedroom communities in Europe - you just didn't go to them because why would a tourist go to them? The typical layout is town->multi-family housing surrounding the town that is walkable->larger housing (mix of multi/attached and detached ) that is not walkable. Older parts of the USA (pre-war) are very similar in that there's lots of mixed zoned areas wh…

Well I was primarily visiting family so lots of bedroom communities that by USA standards feel almost like a downtown. Even a rural village had a boulangerie and coffee place within a 20min walk.

Also I spent the first 28 years of my life in Europe so I feel like I have somewhat of a grasp for what it’s like. Just that these defaults become more obvious when you live elsewhere for a while.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#175

Post by bart_spoon »

bottlepalm wrote: post #6
coldtea wrote: post #3

[flagged]

You mean the car-oriented suburbs?

You say that as if they aren't two parts of a whole. American cities and suburbs aren't distinct entities, they are two essential organs to a single body. All of the things people hate about American cities are enabled by American suburbs and vice versa. The hope is that remote work will enable more self-contained neighborhoods and small cities to replace soul-less suburbs and unlivable cities. Suburbs will likely be the long-term winners and cities the long-term losers, but the status quo in America was unsustainable, so something was going to have to give.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#176

Post by xrd »

I was stuck in the Portland airport during the snowstorm. I had several illuminating conversations with people in the five hours I waited to reschedule my flight there at the airport.

For context, my family recently relocated to a medium sized Florida town (~100k) from a Portland suburb.

It was really interesting to hear the 20 and 30 somethings in line with me talk about Portland. They seemed to prefer it to Florida (where one grew up) and Portland, Maine (where the other grew up). They loved access to snowboarding (1.5 hours away from downtown Portland) and the restaurant and music scene. I half assumed they would be intending to flee Portland, but their mindset was not the same as mine is (saturated with bad news from Twitter and shitty local news stations).

My news feed is all about the crime in Portland. These two people clearly weren't bothered by this to the extent I was (with small kids, etc). I think for many young people, living around other young people is still very, very important. I miss that part of my old life. It seems very stale in central Florida, to be honest.

It's a small sample, but if cities could convert their downtowns into affordable homes (option to buy, not rent) I bet there would be a resurgence of young people establishing long term ties. If you don't have kids, you can avoid the homeless people (Portland recently voted to evict them from downtown anyway) on your way to multiple dates and drinking establishments.

It (revitalized downtown) happened in Detroit, right, when they were at the bottom. Why not in all the other cities? Crime is, even now, no where near the levels it was in the 80s when I grew up in Portland never felt uncomfortable at all. Social media is amplifying a point of view for certain people, IMHO.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#177

Post by xen2xen1 »

em500 wrote: post #45
xen2xen1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real concern is that companies that are 100% remote will pick Romaina and not Iowa.

Why is that the real concern? Are Romanians (or Indians for that matter) somehow less deserving of higher pay than Iowans?

I'm sitting in the American Midwest. Good jobs are already scarce here, and people are used to "move to a big city for decent pay". So yes, it's a concern.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#178

Post by dragonwriter »

fundad wrote: post #162
skeeter2020 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a real concern? Obviously if you live in Iowa, yes.

People can downsize to Romania if salaries sink that low.

Unless Romania decides they want the kind of control of their local culture and wat of life that os cited to motivate American immigration restrictions, which have led to the absolute (not just population proportional) rate of legal immigration peaking in 1907.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#179

Post by iudqnolq »

xrd wrote: post #176

I was stuck in the Portland airport during the snowstorm. I had several illuminating conversations with people in the five hours I waited to reschedule my flight there at the airport. For context, my family recently relocated to a medium sized Florida town (~100k) from a Portland suburb. It was really interesting to hear the 20 and 30 somethings in line with me talk about Portland. They seemed to prefer it to Florida…

I live in a high-crime area. I hear gunshots every now and then. In two years there's been one shooting on my block.

I treat others with respect and mind my own business. My neighbors reciprocate, and don't bother me.

For various reasons it was convenient for me to go for regularly long walks late at night, and I never ran into any issues with that. There was one homeless guy who was grumpy I woke him up, so I learned to aim my headlamp better.

In my experience people who end up seriously hurt by criminals tend to be criminals themselves. It's pretty easy to stay out of all that.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#180

Post by cozzyd »

kkfx wrote: post #98
cozzyd wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people live in service-devoid suburbs. Services follow density of people.

Ok, good. So what's the purpose of converting former office buildings in residential one? Workers who left them surely do not came back in them to reside, they left and choose new homes more apt to the WFH purposes, something not easy to find in a dense city. Where you have plenty of space to develop renewables in a dense city? Where the home garage to recharge your car? Where the place to get larger and larger packa…

There is plenty of demand for living in dense walkable places, which is why they're more expensive per square foot than houses in the burbs. You don't need to recharge your car if you don't have one at all, which is much more sustainable.
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