Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 549 posts

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#171

Post by magicalhippo »

thinking4real wrote: post #89
marvin wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regular EV user here - plugging it in is something you do every time you park, the way you lock your doors. It takes five seconds. Press the «open charge port» button on the charging cable and stick it in the charging socket. Done.

I’m cracking up that you’re making this sound so simple and matter of fact, but reading this description of how one is “supposed” to charge their EV makes me realize i’m many years from wanting one. Honestly, it’s kind of a joke how badly people want to defend the tech despite its current shortcomings.

On the flip side my GF loves it.

When she got home late the last thing she wanted to do was to spend an extra 10-15 minutes or so filling up. Which frequently led to a panic the following day when she'd forgotten. She even ran out of gas a couple of times when she was really stressed the following day.

She much prefers the EV since it's always full. When she gets home it takes literally less than 10 seconds to plug it in. Next day it takes literally less than 10 seconds to unplug, and she never has to think about filling up for the rest of the day.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#172

Post by pard68 »

jws wrote: post #73
GalenErso wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, with an ICE car, you don't need to worry about having a garage, nevermind a heated one; the right charger, warming a pack, losing fuel overnight, or taking three hours to fully charge. I can pull up to any gas station and fill my tank in 2 minutes. And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly. The 30 different requirements for EVs to work in cold weather are too complex and prohibitively…

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

Is that something that actually happens to diesel engines? I have multiple diesels and while they are difficult to _start_ in the cold they are fine once started for me. But yes, cold enough and combustion engines are hard to get going. My Subaru hates cold days, it'll go a few seconds on a below freezing day before ignition. My diesel tractors actually have electric plugs to keep the manifold hot.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#174

Post by joshuanapoli »

linsomniac wrote: post #9

Range impact of cold weather does seem to be a real thing, I can't speak personally because I own a Tesla which has some of the lowest impact. Another thing to keep in mind is: Charging speeds of cold temps. While the Tesla seems to do great at range, charging at cold temps is not great. When it's below freezing, home charging can be tough to impossible. A few days ago (when it was merely "cold", before the huge cold…

It’s strange that people’s experiences are so varied with EVs in cold weather. Here it’s 14F right now and my Model Y is charging at 30 mph (versus 32 mph in warm weather). Driving 120 miles this morning at 11F used maybe 10% more energy than normal. The doors, though, we’re quite sticky and frustrating to open.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#175

Post by zainhoda »

Schnitz wrote: post #162
akmarinov wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2035 US is 2022 Europe, if your garage has power - you have 220v

How many people in the US do really not have 220V in the garage? I bet a lot of homes have either a sub-panel (and thus could add 220V very easily) or a laundry (dryer socket, 220V).

My guess is that older homes in the northeast will have an issue not with adding the outlet but upgrading from 100amp to 200amp service. I was quoted $10k for that upgrade. I had to decide between getting an EV and getting a heat pump. Decided on the heat pump, which I’m very happy with — it’s saving me thousands on heating oil.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#176

Post by Gordonjcp »

swayvil wrote: post #45

Flywheels. What's the state of the tech for that? Surly that's where we should be developing. Last I heard they're very efficient. In theory it has no ceiling, storagewise. And it certainly isn't constrained by a chemical reaction. The only downside is keeping it from blowing up. Right?

Hugely inefficient things, maintenance nightmare, no useful capacity, loads of really weird esoteric bits required to make them work at all.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#178

Post by rlkf »

pard68 wrote: post #172
jws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

Is that something that actually happens to diesel engines? I have multiple diesels and while they are difficult to _start_ in the cold they are fine once started for me. But yes, cold enough and combustion engines are hard to get going. My Subaru hates cold days, it'll go a few seconds on a below freezing day before ignition. My diesel tractors actually have electric plugs to keep the manifold hot.

Mostly it's the start battery that have problems in the cold. The diesel sold in Norway have anti-gelling substances added; cars run fine in -20 degC/-4 degF.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#179

Post by kzrdude »

cwalv wrote: post #116
jws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

> But you know what I don't do? Freeze my ass off standing in a gas station in subzero temperatures and howling winds! Not missing that at all. Right! And I suspect by 2035, not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave in your kitchen in the mid 90's.

I'm curious, is 220V (or 230V) more than twice as fast/twice as good as 110V? The discussion here makes it sound like it. All I know is that you'll need higher amperage with lower voltage, but it can compensate proportionally. I guess heat losses and other problems are significant, if it's a problem at 110V?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#180

Post by clouddrover »

> The company analyzed the real-world winter driving range of thousands of electric vehicles and found the Tesla Model Y retained most of its EPA-rated range in winter.

This Axios article is from March, 2022 and has incorrect data. In particular it's wrong about the Tesla results.

The Axios chart claims the Model Y achieves 97% of its EPA range in 70°F and 98% of its EPA range in 20-30°F. They're claiming the Model Y does better in cold weather.

Here is updated data from Recurrent as of December 2022:

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

What's new in the updated data is that Recurrent has included verified real world winter range tests. Previously they were relying on dashboard data and Teslas don't give you good information. Recurrent says, "As evidenced below, it appears in the Model 3 dashboard data that there is almost no change in available range in cold or hot conditions."

But now, "New to 2022, we have added observed, real-world range fluctuations to our Tesla data. The dotted line below shows the range as observed from on-board devices and energy usage. This shows a more expected decrease in winter range, although Tesla's thermal management is still great at controlling cold weather range loss."

What Recurrent now says for the Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD is:

> Observed Range at 20-30F: 49% of Original EPA Range

> Observed Range at 70F: 64% of Original EPA Range

So even at 70°F the Model Y only attains 64% of its rated EPA range in their data.

Tesla inflates their EPA numbers. You always need to do real world testing.

Post reply on HN