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AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

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Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#171

Post by ChainOfFools »

byw wrote: post #131
baxtr wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are still debating what “AI” really stands for. I believe most people intuitively think AGI whenever AI is mentioned. Once we have AGI - still out a few decades I guess - we could replace a lot more than just middle management. If we’re talking non-AGI AI (for lack of a better term) I don’t see why it’s any different than introducing tools that merely compute faster than a human, just like Excel for exampl…

I'm generally curious if there are any numbers about this. Something like managers per employees over the decades.

Peter Drucker argued (with data) in the late 90s that the entire edifice of computing had yet to return a total positive return on business as a whole. basically claiming that if one subtracts total cost including things like the brain drain of minds which would normally funnel into advanced business and management schools to comp sci programs, and the tendency for advances in individual firms' efficiencies to cross cancel in a competitive market, not to mention actual hardware/software costs, then business and by extension consumers are paying an ongoing tax to support computing, which is not returned even equally as improved services and goods.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#172

Post by DocTomoe »

snowwrestler wrote: post #39

What does chess have in common with retail middle management? As someone who has managed a retail store and played chess, I can confidently answer: nothing. Remember when Watson beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy? And then IBM saturated the airwaves with ads about how Watson was going to revolutionize industries like energy and health care? Notice how we don’t see those ads anymore? It’s because winning Jeopardy has nothi…

> How, specifically, will AI be better at that than humans?

At first, it won't. But eventually, with AIs getting more elaborate and employee databases getting connected, it is not hard to see a scenario where "fired by an AI" becomes a black mark that prevents future employment. Such a black mark would eventually be enough for Jack to follow orders, just for fear of consequences.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#173

Post by kvdveer »

Kiro wrote: post #128
quirkot wrote: post #21

I think this article fundamentally misunderstands the core function of middle management. You can boil it down to 2 key tasks (on the front lines of a very large organization). a) Interpreting: either top->down by explaining and enforcing corporate policy on hourly workers or bottom->up by ensuring workers enter data to be reported on correctly b) "Encouraging": an employee calls in sick, again. Neither firing them o…

In what dystopian country do you live where you don't automatically get the day off when calling in sick?

Calling in sick regularly is often a sign of some other problem. Any competent manager will encourage an employee to either deal with that problem or arrange for help.

In a dystopia, the manager will indeed ignore that problem and 'encourage' the worker to come to work. I believe this style of management can be replaced by an AI quite readily, and I believe this has already happened by rather trivial software (think the fake gig-workers for uber, lyft etc. Don't come in today? Your rating will drop tomorrow, along with your wage).

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#175

Post by tiborsaas »

snowwrestler wrote: post #39

What does chess have in common with retail middle management? As someone who has managed a retail store and played chess, I can confidently answer: nothing. Remember when Watson beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy? And then IBM saturated the airwaves with ads about how Watson was going to revolutionize industries like energy and health care? Notice how we don’t see those ads anymore? It’s because winning Jeopardy has nothi…

> What does chess have in common with retail middle management?

Sacrificing pawns is an accepted practice? :)

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#176

Post by DocTomoe »

cratermoon wrote: post #34
quirkot wrote: post #21

I think this article fundamentally misunderstands the core function of middle management. You can boil it down to 2 key tasks (on the front lines of a very large organization). a) Interpreting: either top->down by explaining and enforcing corporate policy on hourly workers or bottom->up by ensuring workers enter data to be reported on correctly b) "Encouraging": an employee calls in sick, again. Neither firing them o…

Counterpoint: Who was designated "essential worker" during the pandemic?

This may be just me, but where I live, virtually everyone was eventually considered "essential".

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#177

Post by josefx »

alvis wrote: post #164
paganel wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more robotic your message sound, the more people are compelled to comply. Thankfully that is not the case where I live (somewhere in Europe), but I can see what you describe becoming true in a very dystopic future. Does that AI also handle situations like “boss, would you be so kind to borrow me some money for 2, 3 days? Until the salary comes, that is, cause me and my SO are totally out of it”? Cause some of m…

I can imagine it can be a fintech opportunity. An AI that automatically performs a credit check behind the scene and lend you the money in advance, probably money in your account in seconds. It's not too hard actually.

Why the hell would you perform a credit check if someone who works for you needs some of their salary two days early? Would you stop paying their salary if the credit check came back negative? Of course that seems like exactly the pointless and counterproductive behavior one would expect from a badly designed automated system.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#178

Post by ztrww »

alvis wrote: post #164
paganel wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more robotic your message sound, the more people are compelled to comply. Thankfully that is not the case where I live (somewhere in Europe), but I can see what you describe becoming true in a very dystopic future. Does that AI also handle situations like “boss, would you be so kind to borrow me some money for 2, 3 days? Until the salary comes, that is, cause me and my SO are totally out of it”? Cause some of m…

I can imagine it can be a fintech opportunity. An AI that automatically performs a credit check behind the scene and lend you the money in advance, probably money in your account in seconds. It's not too hard actually.

This is different from a pay day loan how exactly? I have bank app on my phone which claims that I can get an up to 35k loan in minutes

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#179

Post by seu »

> Artificial Intelligence is now capable of beating the best humans at chess 100% of the time no questions asked. The Roomba in the corner of my room still gets stuck on things and runs out of power.

This is a ridiculous comparison. Chess is infinitely less complex than the most simple of living rooms. Real world tasks are much more complex than something contained inside a limited, finite universe like that of chess.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#180

Post by [deleted] »

firefoxd wrote: post #141
snowwrestler wrote: post #39

What does chess have in common with retail middle management? As someone who has managed a retail store and played chess, I can confidently answer: nothing. Remember when Watson beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy? And then IBM saturated the airwaves with ads about how Watson was going to revolutionize industries like energy and health care? Notice how we don’t see those ads anymore? It’s because winning Jeopardy has nothi…

Watson was a stunt. It's not very hard for someone on HN to figure out how much of Watson was Watson. The crowd still bought it. But as someone who worked on software that handled the last example you gave, I assure, a few well placed if and elses do the trick. Also, humans have tendency to follow any instructions sent to them when it is titled "System" or "Administration". *System Message:* New revised schedule for.…

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