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A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

cleveland.com

171–180 of 311 posts

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wish I could find a morel, chanterelle, and porcini dealer.

> chanterelle How do you cook them? They are pretty cheap here so I tried number of times this summer and found the flavour just not worth the cleanup hassle. Maybe they are different in NA. IIRC the traditional method here is to boil them and then cook with bacon and onion, so chances of their flavour is 0.

Fry them in butter and put them on a piece of toast.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#173
post #44

Since no one has done it yet, I'll ask the obvious question about the FDA: how many people die or need a liver transplant each year because the FDA is being unreasonable here? Here's some quotes from the article: Approximately 40% of people who ingest the deadly Amanita mushrooms die or require a liver transplant, according to Dr. Pierre Gholam, the liver specialist at University Hospitals who treated Hickman. ... Th…

> despite its several beneficial effects on the liver, silibinin and all the other compounds found in silymarin, especially silychristin seem to act as potent disruptors of the thyroid system by blocking the MCT8 transporter. The long term intake of silymarin can lead to some form of thyroid disease and if taken during pregnancy, silymarin can cause the development of the Allan–Herndon–Dudley syndrome. Although this…

[deleted]

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#174
Just go after a specific kind of mushroom and one that doesn’t have any close lookalikes and it’s very easy to safely pick mushrooms. Next level up from picking a single one is to pick a few known kinds which all have distinct features that can’t be confused with others.

I pick only boletus, chanterellus (which has a bad lookalike in North America but it’s not really that close and where I am in Europe there is no really poisonous lookalike at all). Even easier late in autumn when you can pick various cratherellus and there are almost no other mushrooms at all.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bicycle accident bill can be over 100k USD without any surgery or being admitted overnight. Having a stroke can be 500-600k which might cause another upon seeing the bill.

A bicycle accident without any surgery or being admitted overnight cost me about $600. A broken piece of the elbow (rather painful if you move your hand): one emergency room visit $300, an extra bill for some extra X-ray on that visit $180 (I declined to pay it, but my wife paid by mistake), a couple visits for observation $50 each, amounts approximate. A hospital was a bit pushing me to get a couple more extra X-ray…

> So I am a bit wondering what you should have broken for 100k USD without requiring surgery or overnight stay.

Probably the latest model ultra-light e-bike and your Vaude vest.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#176
post #44

Since no one has done it yet, I'll ask the obvious question about the FDA: how many people die or need a liver transplant each year because the FDA is being unreasonable here? Here's some quotes from the article: Approximately 40% of people who ingest the deadly Amanita mushrooms die or require a liver transplant, according to Dr. Pierre Gholam, the liver specialist at University Hospitals who treated Hickman. ... Th…

> despite its several beneficial effects on the liver, silibinin and all the other compounds found in silymarin, especially silychristin seem to act as potent disruptors of the thyroid system by blocking the MCT8 transporter. The long term intake of silymarin can lead to some form of thyroid disease and if taken during pregnancy, silymarin can cause the development of the Allan–Herndon–Dudley syndrome. Although this…

The funny thing is that 100 mg of Silybi mariani fructus extactum siccum is OTC in Poland used for liver problems that people might have after ingesting a heavy meal.

And it's been for decades without any safety issues.

Granted that in cases of mushroom poisoning it's given only in hospital setting probably through IV, probably in much higher doses.

But those people would die without it. Any reasonable safety profile of this drug is better than safety profile of untreated deathcap poisoning.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#177
post #130
post #44

Since no one has done it yet, I'll ask the obvious question about the FDA: how many people die or need a liver transplant each year because the FDA is being unreasonable here? Here's some quotes from the article: Approximately 40% of people who ingest the deadly Amanita mushrooms die or require a liver transplant, according to Dr. Pierre Gholam, the liver specialist at University Hospitals who treated Hickman. ... Th…

"Gholam says that the process of FDA approval for Silibinin is slow, primarily because it only works for amatoxin poisoning, from the Amanita mushroom species. Those poisonings are rare – so gathering enough data to satisfy the safety and efficacy requirements of the FDA takes time. And there is little financial incentive by the company that owns the drug to invest in its research and development." Incidentally, thes…

Seems like the barrier ought to be lower if the alternative is death though…

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#178
post #44

Since no one has done it yet, I'll ask the obvious question about the FDA: how many people die or need a liver transplant each year because the FDA is being unreasonable here? Here's some quotes from the article: Approximately 40% of people who ingest the deadly Amanita mushrooms die or require a liver transplant, according to Dr. Pierre Gholam, the liver specialist at University Hospitals who treated Hickman. ... Th…

I’m guessing because evidence is limited it helps much?

https://emj.bmj.com/content/33/1/76.2

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only eaten wild mushrooms once. They were picked by a friend I trusted who had been picking them for 20+ years, and he ate them at the same time I did. He damn sure was not using an app on his phone to identify them.

I'd eat them the next day after he ate them.

In many mishrooms the poison takes 72 hours or so to destroy your liver without symptoms, so waiting 24 hours would not help.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#180
post #135
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gholam says that the process of FDA approval for Silibinin is slow, primarily because it only works for amatoxin poisoning, from the Amanita mushroom species. Those poisonings are rare – so gathering enough data to satisfy the safety and efficacy requirements of the FDA takes time. And there is little financial incentive by the company that owns the drug to invest in its research and development." Incidentally, thes…

My question is: why does the FDA need to (get domestic pharma companies to) conduct its own studies here? If the drug has been used in Europe for 30 years, presumably there are 30 years of evidence in European clinical practice that can be used as evidence. Maybe even existing meta-analyses of said evidence in European medical journals. Why isn't that sufficient?

The FDA does not accept any studies conducted overseas as clinical evidence. They request studies to contain at least 50% US citizens and be analyzed by US certified physicians.

Now whether that leads to better outcomes or is just a protectionist measure for the local industry is anyone’s guess. A bit of both, I would imagine.

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