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Racism in Tech

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Re: Racism in Tech

#171

Post by kiiski »

tedunangst wrote: post #144
kiiski wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I think you overestimate how common NATO phonetic alphabet is. I, for example, don't know it and I still can use a telephone without problems. (I'm Finnish)

If you're getting paid to communicate with people using the NATO alphabet, you should know the NATO alphabet. (Or the company should hire people who know it. It's not strictly the call workers' fault that they can't communicate.)

But rdl said "using telephone in general" (which I assume was meant in the context of speaking with customers) and people do that even if they weren't hired specifically for communicating.

Re: Racism in Tech

#173

Post by tedunangst »

kiiski wrote: post #171
tedunangst wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're getting paid to communicate with people using the NATO alphabet, you should know the NATO alphabet. (Or the company should hire people who know it. It's not strictly the call workers' fault that they can't communicate.)

But rdl said "using telephone in general" (which I assume was meant in the context of speaking with customers) and people do that even if they weren't hired specifically for communicating.

Yeah, that may be pushing it, not sure how general they really meant.

Re: Racism in Tech

#174

Post by maguay »

joebadmo wrote: post #77
d3x wrote: post #6

This entire issue is crap. I am a black programmer... I have no college education, came from single family home blah blah womp womp. I have launched 10+ projects for clients this year alone. I have 1 failed contract where I left because it just didn't work out. When I had success it was not because I was black and when I failed it was not because I was black. Both when I have succeeded and when I have failed was neve…

I have never encountered racism, therefore there is no racism. And anyone who thinks they're being discriminated against is a lazy whiner.

As an American caucasian male living in a small town in Asia, I can assure you racism is alive and well across the whole world. Live somewhere where you're looked down on for your accent, color of skin, and national origin, and you'll learn what racism feels like. Then go back to your home country, and you'll recognize the subtle racist remarks and discrimination that you would have never noticed before you'd experienced prejudice first-hand.

Re: Racism in Tech

#175

Post by shabble »

rdl wrote: post #108
irahul wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I needed to spell my first name (David) out to them using the NATO phonetic alphabet. Did you just say "Delta Alpha..." or "D as in Delta, A as in Alpha"? I can assure you the first one would confuse the hell out of most of the Indians(I am an Indian living in India). Some of the NATO phonetic alphabets would complicate matters even further - Quebec, Zulu, Yankee. Zulu is a special one, considering Z isn't pronounc…

Anyone not understanding NATO phonetic alphabet has no business working in a call center (or using a telephone, in general), even if English is not his or her native language.

Whenever I try to use the NATO codes, I invariably forget at least one of the letters I need to use. So it's all going happily "C for charlie, A for alpha, Dammit, what's P again? P for...umm....argh...papa!"

That's as a caller though, I've never worked in a position that requires me to take calls from the public. I've often been met with pleasant surprise by call-centre staff when I use it to clarify non-obvious spellings, and always request a read-back check.

Re: Racism in Tech

#176

Post by davidw »

burgerbrain wrote: post #148
davidw wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally believe very much in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and in not overreacting, and so on. The world benefits greatly from not taking offense at the drop of a hat. However, there are times when one's blood boils for a reason. I reread this a few hours after my initial comments and... yep, I'm still angered when I read that those who call out someone for being racist are "backwards" and the equivalen…

The insistence on misrepresenting other peoples comments here is simply stunning.

The guy wrote what he wrote: "people who get bent out of shape about it [racism] are just as backwards as the few people who are still actually racist."

Re: Racism in Tech

#177

Post by rdl »

tedunangst wrote: post #173
kiiski wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But rdl said "using telephone in general" (which I assume was meant in the context of speaking with customers) and people do that even if they weren't hired specifically for communicating.

Yeah, that may be pushing it, not sure how general they really meant.

Yeah, I didn't really mean "as a telephone end user"; I meant "in a professional telephone-based job, especially one in data entry", although I'd consider it to be one of the basic communications skills people should learn just as people, too.

It was chosen specifically to work through bad communications channels and diverse accents, especially if you use the specific pronunciations required for the words (kay-beck for quebec, etc.).

Re: Racism in Tech

#178

Post by kahawe »

technoslut wrote: post #12
kahawe wrote: post #5

This story is shocking and I hate to nit-pick here but > Just to remind all of us that racism is alive and well in the US and in tech. [...] The customer site is a government owned military installation. This doesn't make it any "better", actually much worse, but this is not "in tech". What I find both shocking and curious about racism is that it is a much more widespread problem throughout the world, not only limite…

>This doesn't make it any "better", actually much worse, but this is not "in tech". Technically it is because it's in their profession. If you're involved in major tech company there is a likelihood that you're going to have to deal with the gov't. >What I find both shocking and curious about racism is that it is a much more widespread problem... Many, if not most people, need to feel some sense of superiority over a…

Nazi Germany was doing this on a whole different level and for different reasons... in their own twisted way, they were actually believing they were doing humanity a favor by cleansing it. There were even scientists there backing all their "race theories".

So, that specific rabbit hole goes much, MUCH deeper than you think.

Re: Racism in Tech

#179

Post by bdunbar »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #103
bdunbar wrote: post #53

Over the course of the three days, the customer made endless racial and ethnic slurs directed at B. Customer is a 'government owned military installation'. What branch? What site? Was the customer military or civilian contractor? The military is [1] _death_ on racisim, sexism, favoritism. Just does not happen. When it does it gets squashed. While the military one thing, the individual service members are another. It'…

> The military is [1] _death_ on racisim, sexism, favoritism Officially, yes, but that's probably BS. This reminds me of two anecdotes about the IDF (not to make this about Israel -- it's just the data that I have): 1) One friend assured me that any soldier acting improperly would be disciplined immediately, as the IDF had very high standards, etc. etc. 2) Another friend used to tell me stories about his IDF stint an…

You are assuming a great deal, based on one line of text.

You're convinced it's BS. Fine. My experience says that it's not. Actual expertise trumps ignorance and anecdotes, always.

it's just the data that I have

That's not data, those are stories that you were told.

Re: Racism in Tech

#180

Post by bdunbar »

endtime wrote: post #123
JabavuAdams wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The military is [1] _death_ on racisim, sexism, favoritism Officially, yes, but that's probably BS. This reminds me of two anecdotes about the IDF (not to make this about Israel -- it's just the data that I have): 1) One friend assured me that any soldier acting improperly would be disciplined immediately, as the IDF had very high standards, etc. etc. 2) Another friend used to tell me stories about his IDF stint an…

The IDF, which has strengths and weaknesses, is not the US military. The main relevant difference here is that the IDF is composed of every 18 year old in the country (pretty much), whereas the US military is only composed of those who want to be in the military. The kind of kids who will get high on guard duty in Israel won't ever join the military in the US.

The kind of kids who will get high on guard duty in Israel won't ever join the military in the US.

I'd love to say otherwise, but it just isn't so.

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