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Racism in Tech

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Re: Racism in Tech

#51
post #40
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So his opinion should be dismissed 'cuz he's white? It's a topic where white people aren't allowed to talk about, except if we wish to talk in politically correct platitudes? I agree with you that racism is still a real problem and that k33n's comment seems somewhat out of touch. However, what you say is tantamount to "shut up because you're white", and that's not cool either. You actually went to the trouble of look…

As a white person in the US, I'll tell you true: my opinion on racism is much less well informed than the average non-white person. Because a) I almost never experience it, b) I am less inclined to notice it, and c) non-white people are very unlikely to talk to me about their experiences and thoughts on the topic. So yes, a person's race is entirely relevant to considering the quality of their opinions on racism. For…

I agree with the statistics (racism is real; white people are less like to be discriminated against or experience indirect racism) but draw the opposite conclusion.

When dealing with issues of discrimination the point is to treat everybody equally, to treat people based on their merits and not based on the color of their skin or the statistics of their demographic. If we conclude from research that one race is more intelligent than another, or taller than another, or has more aptitude in some domain, then a rational agent would reason: "well, this person is from domain D, and people from domain D have less aptitude in Y, and since I am hiring people for that aptitude, I am less inclined to hire this person.". Logically sound, but still discriminatory. It's discriminatory because the person is treated based on the demographic he belongs to, not on his or her individual merits. So even if the research points out that one demographic is inferior to another demographic on one axis that still doesn't justify treating an individual based on his membership of a demographic. To put it bluntly, if research shows (it doesn't) that white people are absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt better at programming than black people discrimination against black people would still be wrong. The differences in aptitude between the individuals always trump differences in aptitude between large groups.

So when you say "a person's race is entirely relevant", I think you're completely and terribly wrong. Because it's irrelevant whether a typical white person understands less about racism than a typical black person. What matters is whether the specific individual understands. Again, the individual is not to be judged based on his membership of a demographic.

Yes, a typical white person understands less about racism than a typical black person. And a majority of the prison population consists of black people. And if you apply those generic traits of the demographic to the individual you're racist. When you judge a black person on his statistical likelihood of having a criminal record then that's racist. When you judge a white person on his statistical likelihood of ignorance on race issues that's also racist.

Re: Racism in Tech

#52
post #9

I think racism is about as far from a relevant issue as you can get. Honestly, the people who get bent out of shape about it are just as backwards as the few people who are still actually racist. Edit: Since davidw is claiming that I think victims of racism are backwards, I'd like to clarify. I think that all victims of crimes and discrimination should be treated with respect and dignity by polite society (which far…

Racism, in any organization, needs to be called out and dealt with. In the military, even moreso, as the military is supposed to be a fair sampling of the racial makeup of our country. It is supposed to be otherwise neutral with regard to race, creed, color, or gender.

If we fail to hold them to as near that standard as possible, then we are giving acceptance to the idea that racism is OK in larger society.

Re: Racism in Tech

#53
Over the course of the three days, the customer made endless racial and ethnic slurs directed at B.

Customer is a 'government owned military installation'. What branch? What site?

Was the customer military or civilian contractor?

The military is [1] _death_ on racisim, sexism, favoritism. Just does not happen. When it does it gets squashed.

While the military one thing, the individual service members are another. It's a very masculine culture, not unheard of for best friends to insult each other with words, phrases, etc that would sound blisteringly insulting to an outsider. But which are understood by the participants to be 'funnin' around'.

I conjecture: could 'B' have been hooked up with a guy who was trying to bond and it mis-fired?

[1] My last direct experience was 1993, when I separated. I have several friends who are enlisted, my step-son has been in the army since 1999.

Re: Racism in Tech

#54
post #45
post #6

This entire issue is crap. I am a black programmer... I have no college education, came from single family home blah blah womp womp. I have launched 10+ projects for clients this year alone. I have 1 failed contract where I left because it just didn't work out. When I had success it was not because I was black and when I failed it was not because I was black. Both when I have succeeded and when I have failed was neve…

You are the exception and not the rule. It's great when things work out as they did for you but it's not the norm. Just because this has been your experience as a black programmer doesn't mean it is that of all others. I also don't think its true that "This entire issue is being exploited to get attention for Angela Benton and her new accelerator." This issue would exist regardless of whether the NewMe accelerator ex…

[deleted]

Re: Racism in Tech

#56
post #51
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a white person in the US, I'll tell you true: my opinion on racism is much less well informed than the average non-white person. Because a) I almost never experience it, b) I am less inclined to notice it, and c) non-white people are very unlikely to talk to me about their experiences and thoughts on the topic. So yes, a person's race is entirely relevant to considering the quality of their opinions on racism. For…

I agree with the statistics (racism is real; white people are less like to be discriminated against or experience indirect racism) but draw the opposite conclusion. When dealing with issues of discrimination the point is to treat everybody equally, to treat people based on their merits and not based on the color of their skin or the statistics of their demographic. If we conclude from research that one race is more i…

Taking four paragraphs to get to your conclusion is a good tactic there. Because maybe by the end people will have forgotten that I'm not actually advocating judging people by their skin color.

Re: Racism in Tech

#57
Even inside YC. I remember at the YC NYC meetup, the guy on stage in red sweater (forgot his name) was saying "I was so lucky to be born as white male in a middle class family"; I was like, WTH, so born as non-white or female is unlucky?!

Re: Racism in Tech

#58
Sad outcomes occur when some people get their education about the world from tv and hearsay.

When anyone takes a minute to turn a stranger into a person they fight racism, or any -ism by delivering social proof of how to behave.

Re: Racism in Tech

#60
post #47

I am fed up with all the bla bla around this issue. Really. Look, if you think there is racism in the tech field (let us define this narrowly as prejudices against blacks; prejudices against Indians and Chinese are, I think, a bit different), stop writing cute, angry blog posts; instead write about what the solution is and what you are doing about it. That there are too few blacks in the tech industry is a fact. The…

"prejudices against Indians and Chinese are, I think, a bit different" - Please explain.
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