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Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

theintercept.com

171–180 of 193 posts

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#171
post #21

It's not very often that each and every point in an article just feels "fabricated" or over the top. It starts with finding the page: Amazon -> Customer Service -> Search for "personal data" -> Search result #1 is "Request Your Personal Information" which nicely explains what to do and links directly to that page. The need to verify or activate a data request via clicking a link? Of course required so some third part…

> each and every point in an article just feels "fabricated" or over the top. What I thought were valid points from the article: - Unclear data: "cryptic strings of numbers like '26,444,740,832,600,000” for various search queries." This is easily the worst offender IMO. - A wait time of 19 days - Separating the download into 74 buttons

Wait time could be explained by some data requiring manual work. Maybe there is an offline hard disc out there that is labeled "Users A-D - 2003 April"

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#172

I run a part of the data request process at our company. This article is an example where people expect anything technology related to be magic. We have to go through EVERY tech stack we own and look for that person's data. It's amazingly manual and tedious and takes about 6 people about an hour per request. We're working to automate it, but needless to say we try not to broadcast it too broadly. I hate that everyone…

> We have to go through EVERY tech stack we own and look for that person's data. It's amazingly manual and tedious and takes about 6 people about an hour per request. GDPR went into effect 5 years ago . If 5 years later you still haven't automated this...

Seriously, this is a direct result of Amazon failing to prioritize this. First off, blaming the customer for calling the architecture out as being bad is crazy. The customer has no say in the architecture - it's all on Amazon.

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#173

I run a part of the data request process at our company. This article is an example where people expect anything technology related to be magic. We have to go through EVERY tech stack we own and look for that person's data. It's amazingly manual and tedious and takes about 6 people about an hour per request. We're working to automate it, but needless to say we try not to broadcast it too broadly. I hate that everyone…

The article clearly acknowledges this:

> Given Amazon’s obsession with speed and eliminating friction to foster faster consumerism, the dawdling data solicitation process seems like it just might be intentional, designed to dissuade requests. A far simpler explanation comes through an invocation of Hanlon’s razor, the old adage to “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” Amazon whistleblowers cited by Politico have said that the company “has a poor grasp of what data it has, where it is stored and who has access to it.” If that’s the case, then it stands to reason that it can take a month or more for Amazon to process a data request. As former Amazon chief information security officer Gary Gagnon succinctly put it in an interview with Reveal, “we have no fucking idea where our data is.”

However, there are many dark patterns here unrelated to how long it took:

- Repeatedly trying to direct users away from a data request to their "Your Account" page, which has a tiny fraction of your data

- 6+ different pages and many many clicks required to make a request

- Data divided into ~100 different downloads (how many more days would it have taken to make one zip?)

Also, Amazon is an ad company. They have well-designed APIs and and tools for managing all this data because it's how they make money. When an advertiser accesses your data, they don't have to manually download 74 different zips.

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#174

I'm one of the creators of YourDigitalRights.org, a service which automates the process of sending data requests (it's free, open source and were a registered charity). What is described in this article is, unfortunately, a common case with some big tech companies. I've recently started an experiment to send data deletion requests to 600 data brokers and document what happens. It's dark patterns all the way down. The…

I really do hope our politicians in Canada pass something like this

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#175

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The author may want to read the privacy policy[0] for the site they are publishing their story on. They are collecting all sorts of data that they don't need to. And IANAL but apparently your rights to access the data they hold on you are restricted only to locations where they legally have to allow it. [0] https://theintercept.com/privacy-policy/

A few highlights from the privacy policy:

> We may automatically collect information such as: Device connectivity and configuration data, including the type of device you’re using (computer, mobile phone, tablet, etc.), the operating system running on that device, the type and version of browser software you’re using, the resolution of your computer monitor or other device display, and the screen colors available on your device;

> We may obtain information about you from other sources, and combine such information with information we have collected about you through the Services. To the extent we combine such third-party sourced information with information we have collected about you on the Services, we will treat the combined information in accordance with this Privacy Policy. These third-party sources vary over time, but have included third-party donor partners and publicly available sources.

> We and our Service Providers may collect and store your information in log files as well as through the use of cookies, web beacons (also known as “tracking pixels”), embedded scripts, and other tracking technologies now and hereafter developed (“Tracking Technologies”).

> Do Not Track. Your browser or device may include “Do Not Track” functionality. At this time, we do not respond to Do Not Track signals.

> Our agents, vendors, consultants, and other service providers (“Service Providers”) may receive or be given access to your information in connection with their work on our behalf. These Service Providers are prohibited from using your information for any purpose other than to provide this assistance, although we may permit them to use aggregate information which does not identify you or de-identified data for other purposes.

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#176

HN probably aren't required to let me download my data, but it sure would be nice. Does that option exist, on this site?

If you really want it, you can probably get a dump of your data by emailing dang & co (hn@ycombinator.com). They're pretty responsive. Don't overwhelm them with superfluous requests, though.

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#177
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider HN to be one of the most user hostile sites there is regarding user content because they don't allow deleting comments. They force people into making a manual request. Which means the feature essentially doesn't exist for casual use.

The right to be forgotten is in tension with the need to preserve public discourse. Nevertheless I have deleted many comments within the available regret window. I do wonder whether they're actually removed from storage, or merely elided by software.

"need to preserve public discourse."

Never heard of it before?

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, and the ridiculously easy process to accidentally sign up for a subscription to each of your smallest of purchases.

It makes sense that Amazon would dedicate resources to making the sign up processes easier because it actually makes them more money compared to making the cancelling easier. That would be a waste of time to work on.

Do the excuses ever end?

> It makes sence that Amazon would entirely forget to provide 'cancell subscribtion' button and will keep taking your money forever'

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#179

I'm one of the creators of YourDigitalRights.org, a service which automates the process of sending data requests (it's free, open source and were a registered charity). What is described in this article is, unfortunately, a common case with some big tech companies. I've recently started an experiment to send data deletion requests to 600 data brokers and document what happens. It's dark patterns all the way down. The…

> The solution is to escalate your request to the local data protection agency

In many countries in Europe, you can expect a response within 30-90 days acknowledging receipt, and an actual response that they'll look into it and request a statement from the company after a year or so.

Sometimes you get lucky, but then only hear back that the company has now changed that one specific bad behavior (after profiting from it for a year or two) and thus the case is closed.

Zero meaningful enforcement.

Until NGOs start suing at scale, nothing will change.

Re: Getting my personal data from Amazon was weeks of confusion and tedium

#180

I run a part of the data request process at our company. This article is an example where people expect anything technology related to be magic. We have to go through EVERY tech stack we own and look for that person's data. It's amazingly manual and tedious and takes about 6 people about an hour per request. We're working to automate it, but needless to say we try not to broadcast it too broadly. I hate that everyone…

It's not magic. It's expecting compliance with the law.

When you make a car, you need to add safety belts and lights.

When you control data, you need to have a way to provide the data to the person who the data is about.

You don't get to complain because your company decided that it's easier to only add the lights and safety belts when someone complains in a cumbersome manual process.

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