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Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

reuters.com

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Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#171

Post by lazide »

ska wrote: post #97
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it fascinating that people believe that there was ever an unbiased, objective news media. This literally has never been the case in the total history of the industry. Journalists are paid to contextualize the data they find, not to regurgitate it.

I don't know anyone who actually believes that. However, recognizing that objectivity in journalism is an ideal impossible to reach doesn't mean all variations are equal, or that attempting to hew closer to the idea is pointless. I think there is a reasonable argument the the general state of journalism and and availability of news to the general public is worse now than it was, say, 30 years ago. Or that 200 years a…

That view can only be supported by false nostalgia or a VERY selective reading of the material and history of the time IMO.

It was a mess, widespread censorship, corruption, and yellow news was common, and it was a period of extreme social turmoil.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#172

Post by Mountain_Skies »

Tech companies are making themselves active participants in conflicts involving powerful countries. Sooner or later, one of those countries is going to reach out and strike back in the physical world. It's just a matter of time. When it was little nudges in color revolutions in relatively weak countries, there was not much to worry about. Now? They're playing with fire and the tech folks doesn't seem they have a clue that this is the case. They feel very secure launching attacks against nation-states that have histories of creating very bad luck for unprotected outsiders who involve themselves in a conflict.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#175

Post by georgyo »

rajin444 wrote: post #158
georgyo wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Follow the laws of the land and that’s it. Which laws? If Russia says that all posts that call the "Special Military Operation" a war are illegal and Ukraine says they are legal, which is correct?

Companies at that scale can easily show different posts in different regions. It requires principles to remain a “natural resource” but it’s probably the most moral position to take if you believe your service helps better humanity (whether or not fb does that is a different discussion).

I am going to remove morality from the discussion temporarily, and instead talk about how practical that is.

A post breaks a law in 100 countries, but does not break the law in 20 countries. Should all 100 countries file their own removal process? Should there be an army of reviewers who are knowledgeable about all laws reviewing all posts? What about that confusion that different people from different regions are seeing different timelines for the same user.

The US has Federal Laws, State Laws, and City Laws. All of these are laws of the land. No company can keep up with all local laws.

"Breaking the law" is highly subjective by itself. Take the US for example, we have "Freedom of Speech," but that does not protect all speech. Many of these cases go to court taking years to determine if something was or was not protected. Should meta defer all moderation to the legal court system?

What you are suggesting makes sense in a vacuum, but cannot exist in reality.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#176

Post by michaelmrose »

rajin444 wrote: post #158
georgyo wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Follow the laws of the land and that’s it. Which laws? If Russia says that all posts that call the "Special Military Operation" a war are illegal and Ukraine says they are legal, which is correct?

Companies at that scale can easily show different posts in different regions. It requires principles to remain a “natural resource” but it’s probably the most moral position to take if you believe your service helps better humanity (whether or not fb does that is a different discussion).

We shouldn't participate in promoting hateful lies used to justify genocide it isn't morally neutral nor is neutrality a virtue.

Such a stance would negate any claim of bettering humanity and represent moral injury to engineers you ask to possess such a hateful species of neutrality.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#177

Post by michaelmrose »

rajin444 wrote: post #145
monklu wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, I think this says less about FB, but more so reflects a hypocrisy in "western principles" that many are probably not self-aware of. Let's assume for a second, that FB do not relax their rules for this conflict. Then they would have to ban a whole sleuth of Ukrainian accounts, including many government accounts such as Ministry of Defense, and probably even Zelensky. You don't have to stretch your ima…

Private companies should not get in the business of policing content. Follow the laws of the land and that’s it. It’s not really a foreign concept. We don’t deny somebody sunlight or air because they do something we don’t like (we as in non government entities - governments do deny people “air”). The world would be a better place if businesses operated as close to a natural resource as possible and left politics to p…

Not policing content changes the character of a forum as well usually for the worse.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#178

Post by lazide »

chupasaurus wrote: post #72
kurthr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note, this is exactly as true of Chinese media/propaganda (CGTN etc). They are all over Tiktok, Twitter, Youtube, Facebook etc... but if you see someone posting from there, you can assume that it is likely state sponsored. It is illegal for a national to use a VPN to access those sites, and dangerous to do so if it upsets anyone in power.

Well Russia doesn't penalize for use of VPNs yet

Give it a few days

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#179

Post by trhway »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #172

Tech companies are making themselves active participants in conflicts involving powerful countries. Sooner or later, one of those countries is going to reach out and strike back in the physical world. It's just a matter of time. When it was little nudges in color revolutions in relatively weak countries, there was not much to worry about. Now? They're playing with fire and the tech folks doesn't seem they have a clue…

>Tech companies are making themselves active participants in conflicts involving powerful countries.

sometimes there are situations when one can't be neutral. A genocidal war like the one Russia is waging in Ukraine is such a situation.

>Sooner or later, one of those countries is going to reach out and strike back in the physical world.

Like Saudis did. So, it is a personal choice of everybody - whether to live by Russian/Saudi rules even when you're in US.

Ukraine people chose to not live by Russian rules and are being genocided for that.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#180

Post by lazide »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #154
xdennis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said that Russia doesn't plan on invading any countries and that Russia hasn't even invaded Ukraine... which is very concerning for us in Romania.

I'm very sorry for the situation you're in. Could you elaborate on your fears for Romania? Putin's attempt to annex Ukraine has been very damaging to Russia's economy and (I assume) its conventional military strength. Putin's actions also placed the rest of Europe on high alert. So even if Putin manages to secure control of eastern Ukraine, I assume it would take many years before Russia is strong enough to attempt a…

Typically if the economy is collapsing during a military action like this, the gov’t has only two options:

1) stop (which in this situation would mean admitting that it was a bad idea/defeat, and almost certainly lead to Putin’s death and the collapse of the gov’t)

Or

2) double down and switch to a military economy, using outside sanctions as proof that they were right and everyone else WAS out to get the country.

Guess which one they seem to be doing?

And if they successfully switch to us vs them’ing the entire world, they can’t let peace happen or folks will start thinking. They need a constant enemy.

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