Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#171

Post by Yetioko » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

blueprint wrote: post #139

NelsonMinar wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency is the solution for a very valuable problem. How do you commit financial crimes and frauds in a way just new enough to confuse people that what you're doing may be valuable?

This is bullshit. People deserve a way to send money without middlemen and unfortunately that requires a means of attempting censorship resistance or at least consensus within a nearly arbitrarily adversarial network.

Your logic doesn't make sense.

You are part of a system like a country. You are part of that country and the country acts on your behalf.

IF there is a good reason that the state only allows sending money after certain criteria are met, its for the good of the country (normal countries, not corrupt ones).

Then the country and its laws has the right to reduce that freedom.

You might believe in the republic idea of everyone for him/herself but studies also show that for normal earning people, this is not helping them at all.

Its not a global basic right to 'deserve a way to send money without middleman'. I'm not even allowed to just move to another country. I'm in one way or another imprisoned in my birth country.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#172

Post by Yetioko » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:35 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #164

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomorrow if they chose to. China banned mining and mining was gone immediately (largely moving to Kyrgystan it seems). Defenders will say you can't shut down the network and that might be true but it's irrelevant. How is it irrelevant? The ban in China did not affect the operation of the network. With re…

It’s a good point that so far, major changes for miners haven’t affected operations. I’m not sure it’s true that nobody knows where they are. There are rankings by country. They need Internet access and power. Many operate openly. Large data centers aren’t invisible. Also, miners were kicked out of Kyrgyzstan. Many machines were confiscated. It seems a lot of miners moved to the US because, even if they are eventuall…

They just stop it as they don't know how to use it and they also don't care about it anyway.

Only the corrupt ones might accept a bribe.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#173

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#174

Post by malermeister » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #168

malermeister wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think again. https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/07/20/rothschild-inves...

for the rothchilds it represents .00001% of their total wealth. The rothchilds keep their wealth in art, land and gold and why they have managed to stay rich for so long. I can point to atleast one person who's class shifted and that person is me. Also, you cherry picked one point among many and misunderstood it. Although there may be some of the financial elite who bought in early in BTC and crypto (Especially A-Z)…

What you're saying comes down to "it might make the problem of inequality and class worse, but hey maybe I'll be on top this time".

I suspect you're having a hard time getting people to sympathize and are receiving a lot of pushback because that is an incredibly selfish view that makes people dislike what you're proposing.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#175

Post by Yetioko » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #151

ScarletEmerald wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution doesn't fit the problem though. Sure, in theory bitcoin-style cryptocurrencies can replace centralized financial systems. But, as keeps being demonstrated, including by this very example, in practice what you end up with is different, less-efficient, centralized financial systems dominated by fraud.

how is it less efficient? Obviously btc can't replace the financial system but crypto can. Investors in the next 10 years are going to realise that an omnipool was all that was needed in the first place and the NYSE is a dinosaur in comparison.

Etherium is looking for a PoS system.

Guess what our current fiat system actually is? A highly finetuned evolutionary PoS system.

It has features like:

- transparency

- fraud detection

- political sanctions (russia vs. ukraine, north korea, iran...)

- fairness due to transparency (you pay your taxes, i do: we both pay our fair share of infrastrucutre cost etc.)

- easy to use (my grandparenst were able to use it)

- save

- easy authentication and authorization system (i can get money with my passport)

- globally accepted

- low transaction fees

- self optimizing system due to capital market (one bank can do transactions faster and cheaper than you can)

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#176

Post by dsco » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:40 PM UTC

NelsonMinar wrote: post #72

jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

Cryptocurrency is the solution for a very valuable problem. How do you commit financial crimes and frauds in a way just new enough to confuse people that what you're doing may be valuable?

It could provide as a store and transpiration means of value in times of crisis. For instance some of the Ukrainian banks are now shutdown. If you had crypto you could access your wealth. Same thing applies for Russian citizens who have nothing to do with the war but will soon have their assets frozen. Did you consider all use cases before posting, or just glee at yet another anti crypto post on HN and thought “yay! I get to post something negative about crypto again today”?

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#177

Post by 542458 » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:41 PM UTC

dymk wrote: post #110

notabotyet wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do thousands of transactions with thousands of people every day without committing financial crimes and without paying any fees. It's extremely valuable to my businesses. Wrenches can be used as weapons but they are also essential for plumbers.

It’s more that you found a legitimate use for Agent Orange.

Fun fact (and not to detract from your allegory), agent orange was widely used by Ontario Hydro from the fifties to late seventies to clear trees from around power lines. The people handling it weren’t really well-informed of what exactly it was or how dangerous it was, so there have been a number of lawsuits. I have an uncle who recalls being jokingly hosed down with the stuff on a hot day by a guy working a sprayer in the back of a truck. Whoops.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.1048075

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#178

Post by Yetioko » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

pricees wrote: post #98

bentlegen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that folks who claimed their bank accounts were frozen because they were “donors to the convoy” never actually verified that that actually happened [1]. At the same time the government, the RCMP, and the banks have come out and said “that didn’t happen” [2]. Last, the government ceded its emergency powers after about a week total, despite claims on HN and various thinkpieces that they would be extended in perpet…

And then there was GoFundMe and GiveSendGo. I am not arguing the politics here. I am responding to the critique that crypto is a solution in search of a problem.

Those are companies with policies.

They have to listen to laws.

Guess what happens if crypto would become bigger and actually a problem for all states globally?

Do you really think they will just accept this? In which way do you think they literlay can't control crypto anymore?

Just because its digital and on the internet, doesn't mean its digital only. It is not and as long as that is, its easy for a state to make sure crypto will never ever reach this level.

You don't believe a state can do this? Just a small reminder about the great firewall from china. There are countries who shut down their internet, literaly.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#179

Post by Yetioko » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:45 PM UTC

atlantas wrote: post #153

jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

With crypto you can transfer your wealth across borders away from oppressive regimes or an incoming army by memorizing 12 words. It's hard to overstate how valuable that is for anyone who finds themselves in that position, and it's becoming more relevant by the day.

You can only do this as long as you are able to convert fiat to crypto and back.

You can also only do this as long as crypto is so small that its not getting banned.

And for everyone who doesn't has this issue, crypto is actually bad: the overall benefit of anonymous money transfer benefits who want to do illegal things which are illegal for purposes.

Would you like to know that others are doing tax fraud and you are the fair citizen? Knowing that they do not contribute to schools and infrastructure while using your schools and infrastructure?

We do not benefit from tax fraud. The mafia does.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#180

Post by neither_color » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:45 PM UTC

malermeister wrote: post #154

blueprint wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is bullshit. People deserve a way to send money without middlemen and unfortunately that requires a means of attempting censorship resistance or at least consensus within a nearly arbitrarily adversarial network.

> People deserve a way to send money without middlemen Why? Please don't just make unfounded assertions.

What's "deserved" is subjective, but I'll bite. People from countries that are fiscally irresponsible and have tight capital controls "deserve" access to an asset that, while volatile, gives them a better hedge than hyperinflation and can't effectively be blocked by their dysfunctional government. See Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and citizens of any country that has a black market exchange rate for dollars/euros(Argentina, Lebanon, Turkey). You could make the case that this is something for international organizations like the UN/IMF to solve, but, they don't on any timescale that's meaningful to the person whose weekly paycheck buys less bread every week. They already have access to the same information and websites we do(with a VPN), accessing a globally distributed and decentralized ledger is as fundamental as their right to access twitter/facebook.

Americans and Europeans have very limited experience with hyperinflation and volatile currencies, plus we have robust banking/fin-tech sectors so of course we're more prone to scoff at the problems cryptos will solve.